1 1 STATE OF NEW JERSEY 2 CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4 5 PUBLIC MEETING NO. 07-05-02 6 7 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 9 Wednesday, May 2, 2007 10 Atlantic City Commission Offices 11 Joseph P. Lordi Public Meeting Room - First Floor 12 Tennessee Avenue and Boardwalk 13 Atlantic City, New Jersey 08401 14 10:40 a.m. to 11:38 a.m. 15 16 17 Certified Shorthand Reporter: Darlene Sillitoe 18 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 19 20 CIPOLLONI & ASSOCIATES, INC. 21 CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS 22 1125 ATLANTIC AVENUE, SUITE 416 23 ATLANTIC CITY, NEW JERSEY 08401 24 (609) 348-9190 25 www.cipolloni-associates.com 2 1 B E F O R E : 2 CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION: LINDA M. KASSEKERT, CHAIR 3 MICHAEL A. FEDORKO, VICE CHAIR MICHAEL C. EPPS, COMMISSIONER 4 RALPH G. FRULIO, COMMISSIONER WILLIAM T. SOMMELING, COMMISSIONER 5 PRESENT FOR THE CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION: 6 DARYL W. NANCE, ADMINISTRATIVE ANALYST DANIEL J. HENEGHAN, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER 7 OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL: 8 DIANNA W. FAUNTLEROY, GENERAL COUNSEL/EXECUTIVE SECRETARY 9 STEVEN M. INGIS, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL TERESA M. NAGENGAST, SENIOR COUNSEL 10 SETH H. BRILIANT, SENIOR COUNSEL LON E. MAMOLEN, SENIOR COUNSEL 11 BERNADETTE T. FRIGEN, PROGRAM SUPERVISOR 12 DIVISION OF GAMING ENFORCEMENT: DEPUTY ATTORNEYS GENERAL 13 BRIAN BISCIEGLIA, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL TIMOTHY C. FICCHI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 14 DOROTHY TURI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S : 2 ITEM NO. 5 TERESA M. NAGENGAST, SENIOR COUNSEL DOROTHY TURI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 3 MARIEL GILETTO, ESQ. FOR: MARIAHILDA RIVERA-IRIZARRY 4 ITEM NO. 9 SETH H. BRILIANT, SENIOR COUNSEL 5 TIMOTHY C. FICCHI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL LEO PREVITI, ESQ. 6 FOR: IGT 7 ITEM NO. 10 STEVEN M. INGIS, SENIOR COUNSEL 8 BERNADETTE T. FRIGEN, PROGRAM SUPERVISOR JOHN J. ZARYCH, ESQ. 9 FOR: JENNIFER TU PHAM 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 AGENDA PUBLIC MEETING NO. 07-05-02 2 MAY 2, 2007, 10:40 a.m. ITEM PAGE VOTE 3 1 Ratification of the minutes of 8 9 April 18, 2007 4 2 Applications for employee and casino service industry licenses: 5 13 initial and/or renewal licenses 9 9 6 applications for initial and/or renewal 6 William H. Banning, III, Director of 9 10 Security for Trump Taj Mahal Associates, LLC 7 Lawrence J. Mullin, President and 10 11 Chief Operating Officer for Marina 8 District Development Company, LLC 3 Petition of Trump Marina Associates, LLC 11 12 9 (d/b/a Trump Marina Hotel Casino) for the issuance of a temporary casino key 10 employee license to Cheryl E. Wilson pursuant to NJSA 5:12-89(3) and to permit 11 pursuant to NJAC 19:43-2.6 to assume the duties and exercise the powers of Vice 12 President of Marketing without first having been found qualified (PRN 1010702) 13 4 Stipulations of settlement and consent agreements: 14 a) Syed M. Ali (07-0182-EA, 12 14 07-0183-ER) 15 b) Glenn Borders (07-0179-EA) 12 14 c) Louis A. Dello-Russo, III 12 14 16 (07-0181-EA) d) Anwar Khan (07-0180-EA) 12 14 17 5 Stipulation of settlement in application 14 16 of Mariahilda Rivera-Irizarry for a 18 casino key employee license and for qualification (06-0513-EA) 19 6 Proposed publication of amendments and 16 18 new rule for bad beat payouts in poker 20 7 Proposed publication of amendments and 18 19 new rule for Three Card Bonus Wager in 21 Let it Ride Poker 8 Proposed adoption of amendment to NJAC 20 21 22 19:4-1.5 (collection of Vigorish in craps after player wins for certain buy and lay 23 bets with true odds) 24 25 5 1 CONTINUED AGENDA PUBLIC MEETING NO. 07-05-02 2 MAY 2, 2007, 10:40 a.m. ITEM PAGE VOTE 3 9 Petition of IGT to terminate the "Regis" 21 22 Slot system and to transfer its progressive 4 jackpot to the "Mega Riches" Slot System (PRN 1000702) 5 10 Application for suspension: Jimmy "Minh" Pham (07-0240-RC) 23 60 6 Jennifer Tu Pham (07-0241-RC) 23 62 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 1 E X H I B I T S : 2 ITEM NO. 2 DESCRIPTION EVD 3 4 EL-1 Remand for hearings 13 license X applications 5 EL-2 Grant 6 licenses X 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (Exhibits retained by Commission.) 25 7 1 (Public Meeting 07-05-02 was commenced 2 at 10:40 a.m.) 3 MR. NANCE: I'd like to read an opening 4 statement: 5 This is to advise the general public 6 that in compliance with Chapter 231 of the 7 Public Laws of 1975 entitled the "Open Public 8 Meetings Act," the New Jersey Casino Control 9 Commission on October 16th, 2006, filed with 10 the Secretary of State at the State House in 11 Trenton an annual meeting schedule. On October 12 16th, copies were mailed to the Press of 13 Atlantic City, the Newark Star Ledger. 14 Members of the press will be permitted 15 to take photographs, and we would ask that this 16 be done in a manner which is not disruptive or 17 distracting to the Commission. 18 The use of cellular telephones in the 19 public meeting room while the Commission is in 20 session is prohibited. 21 Any members of the public who wish to 22 address the Commission will be given the 23 opportunity to do so before the Commission 24 adjourns for the day. 25 Please stand for the Pledge of 8 ITEM NO. 1 1 Allegiance. 2 (The flag salute was recited.) 3 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Good morning. 4 MR. NANCE: Good morning. 5 The matters discussed in closed session 6 were: 7 Employee and enterprise license matters. 8 The Commissioners approved the April 18, 9 2007, closed session minutes. 10 The litigation update regarding Warren 11 Lackland and Lewis M. Springer versus the State 12 of New Jersey and the Casino Control 13 Commission; 14 Gloria Ford versus the State of New 15 Jersey, Casino Control Commission, et al. 16 Tyron Floyd versus Casino Control 17 Commission and Sands Hotel and Casino; 18 And in the matter of the petition of SD 19 from removal from the voluntary self-exclusion 20 list. 21 Item No. 1, ratification of the minutes 22 of April 18th, 2007, public meeting. 23 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Move to 24 approve. 25 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Second. 9 ITEM NO. 2 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 2 made and seconded. All in favor? 3 (Ayes.) 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 5 (No response.) 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 7 MR. NANCE: Item No. 2, application for 8 employee and casino service industry licenses. 9 This agenda item will be entered as 10 Exhibit List 1 and 2. 11 Exhibit List 1 consists of 13 12 applications for initial and/or renewal of 13 casino key and casino employee licenses. The 14 Division has objected to licensure. 15 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to remand 16 for hearings. 17 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Second. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 19 made and seconded. All in favor? 20 (Ayes.) 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 22 (No response.) 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 24 MR. NANCE: Exhibit List 2 consists of 25 six applications for initial and/or renewal of 10 ITEM NO. 2 1 casino key and casino employee licenses. 2 Staff and the Division has recommended 3 that these licenses be granted. 4 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to grant 5 applications. 6 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Second. 7 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 8 made and seconded. All in favor? 9 (Ayes.) 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 11 (No response.) 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 13 MR. NANCE: For consideration are the 14 following applications for renewal of casino 15 key and casino employee licenses and for 16 qualification: William H. Banning, III, 17 Director of Security for Trump Taj Mahal, LLC; 18 and Lawrence J. Mullin, President and Chief 19 Operating Officer for Marina Development 20 Company, LLC. 21 Staff and the Division have recommended 22 that these applications be granted. 23 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to grant 24 the renewal of key licenses and for 25 qualification. 11 ITEM NO. 3 1 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Second. 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion is made and 3 seconded. This is a roll call vote. 4 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Sommeling? 5 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Yes. 6 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Epps? 7 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Yes. 8 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Frulio? 9 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Yes. 10 MR. NANCE: Vice Chair Fedorko? 11 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Yes. 12 MR. NANCE: Chair Kassekert? 13 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yes. 14 MR. NANCE: The record will reflect that 15 the motion is unanimous. 16 Item No. 3, Petition No. 1010702 of 17 Trump Marina Associates, LLC, is requesting the 18 issuance of a temporary casino key employee 19 license to Cheryl E. Wilson pusuant to NJSA 20 5:12-89(e) and to permit her pursuant to NJAC 21 19:43-2.6 to assume the duties and exercise the 22 powers of Vice President of Marketing without 23 first having been found qualified. 24 Staff and the Division have recommended 25 that this petition be granted. 12 ITEM NO. 4 1 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to grant 2 temporary key license and qualification. 3 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Second. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion is made and 5 seconded. This is a roll call vote. 6 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Sommeling? 7 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Yes. 8 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Epps? 9 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Yes. 10 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Frulio? 11 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Yes. 12 MR. NANCE: Vice Chair Fedorko? 13 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Yes. 14 MR. NANCE: Chair Kassekert? 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yes. 16 MR. NANCE: The record will reflect that 17 the motion is unanimous. 18 Item No. 4, stipulation of settlement 19 and consent agreements. When I call your name, 20 please come forward, standing behind the middle 21 table, spreading across the room so that you 22 may be seen: 23 Syed Ali, Glenn Borders, Louis Russo, 24 III, and Anwar Khan. 25 Mr. Ingis? 13 ITEM NO. 4 1 MR. INGIS: Good morning, Madame Chair, 2 Commissioners. 3 The staff has nothing to add at this 4 time. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 6 Has everyone whose name been called come 7 forward? 8 No. You're fine. That's okay. That's 9 all right. Fine. You're fine. Don't worry 10 about it. 11 I'm just going to ask that you state 12 your name for the record, starting with you, 13 sir. 14 MR. KAHN: Anwar Kahn. 15 MS. ALI: Syed Ali. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 17 Mr. Biscieglia? 18 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you, Chair. Good 19 morning, Commissioners. 20 The Division has nothing further and ask 21 that the stipulations be accepted. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 24 Any questions? 25 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 14 ITEM NO. 5 1 Madame Chair. 2 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Motion to approve 3 stipulations. 4 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Second. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 6 made and seconded. All in favor? 7 (Ayes.) 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 11 Thank you very much for coming. Good 12 luck. 13 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 14 MR. NANCE: Item No. 5, stipulation of 15 settlement and application of Mariahilda 16 Rivera-Irizarry for casino key employee license 17 and for qualification. 18 Miss Nagengast? 19 MS. NAGENGAST: Good morning, Chair, 20 Commissioners. 21 For your consideration this morning is 22 the stipulation of settlement. If it is 23 approved, the Applicant will be found 24 disqualified. Her casino key employee license 25 application will be denied. She'll be 15 ITEM NO. 5 1 prohibited from applying for her key license 2 for ten years and from obtaining employment or 3 applying for any type of license or 4 qualification or five years. 5 I'd ask counsel to enter their 6 appearance. 7 MS. GILETTO: Good morning. Mariel 8 Giletto on behalf of Mariahilda 9 Rivera-Irizarry. 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 11 MS. TURI: Good morning, Madame Chair, 12 Commissioners. Dorothy Turi on behalf of the 13 Division. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 15 Miss Giletto? 16 MS. GILETTO: Giletto. 17 CHAIR KASSEKERT: You may proceed. 18 Is there anything you want to say to us 19 today? 20 MS. GILETTO: No. My client agrees to 21 everything in the stipulation. 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Very good. 23 Miss Turi? 24 MS. TURI: We have nothing further to 25 add and urge that this stipulation be accepted 16 ITEM NO. 6 1 by the Commission. 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 3 Any questions? 4 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Motion to approve 5 the stipulation and deny Mariahilda 6 River-Irizarry's casino employee -- casino key 7 employee license application and prohibit her 8 from employment by a casino licensee in any 9 capacity. 10 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Second. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion is made and 12 second. All in favor? 13 (Ayes.) 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion carries. 17 Thank you. 18 MS. GILETTO: Thank you. 19 MS. TURI: Thank you. 20 MR. NANCE: Item No. 6, proposed 21 publication for amendment for new rule for bad 22 beat payouts in poker. 23 Mr. Mamolen? 24 MR. MAMOLEN: Good morning, Madame 25 Chair, Commissioners. 17 ITEM NO. 6 1 You have before you rules that are 2 proposed for publication. These were 3 temporarily adopted several months ago. They 4 are fairly comprehensive in governing the bad 5 beat payouts, sometimes referred to as bad beat 6 jackpots in the game of poker and ranging from 7 everything from accounting rules, posting of 8 rules, and posting of payouts to movement of 9 the payouts to designated areas in the back of 10 the house. 11 So far there are no reported problems 12 with any of a number of casinos. And, again, 13 these are rules before you for publication. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: I see Hilton is 15 advertisingin it on the bulletin boards in the 16 way in. 17 Mr. Ficchi? 18 MR. FICCHI: Thank you, Chair. 19 The Division has the petition. We've 20 submitted to the statisticians to look at the 21 house advantage, and when the report is 22 finalized, it will be furnished to the 23 Commission. 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 25 Any questions? 18 ITEM NO. 7 1 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Madame Chair, 2 appove for publication. 3 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 6 made and seconded. All in favor? 7 (Ayes.) 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 11 MR. NANCE: Item No. 7, proposed 12 publication for amendment and new rule for 13 three card bonus wager in Let it Ride poker. 14 Mr. Mamolen? 15 MR. MAMOLEN: This is another side wager 16 in the game of Let it Ride whereby a player 17 places a wager and whether his or her first 18 three cards are a pair or better. 19 The only change since that which was 20 temporarily adopted is the amount of the wager. 21 As originally proposed for temporary adoption, 22 it was a $1 wager. A number of casino 23 licensees have asked that the minimum and 24 maximum ledger be established by each licensee 25 and staff. 19 ITEM NO. 7 1 I see no problem with that proposal and 2 have let them implement that during the test 3 period. 4 At this time it's ripe for publication. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 6 Mr. Ficchi? 7 MR. FICCHI: Again, good morning. 8 Commissioners. 9 The Division is looking at the house 10 advantage of this, and we'll supply a report as 11 soon as that's finalized, our analysis. 12 Thank you. 13 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 14 Any questions? 15 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 16 Madame Chair. 17 VICE CHAIR: Motion to approve for 18 publication. 19 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 21 made and seconded. All in favor? 22 (Ayes.) 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 24 (No response.) 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 20 ITEM NO. 8 1 MR. NANCE: Item No. 8, proposed 2 adoption of amendment to NJAC 19:47-1.5. 3 Mr. Mamolen? 4 MR. MAMOLEN: This matter is before you 5 for final adoption and would provide an 6 alternate procedure for collection of vigorish 7 in the game of craps for certain payout bets 8 when true odds are offered. 9 There was just one comment received 10 during the comment period, that being from the 11 Division of Gaming Enforcement, which 12 interposed no objection. 13 There was no -- no casino has yet to 14 implement the alternate procedure, but it's 15 noted in the staff memo it doesn't seem to 16 implicate any security or other gaming 17 concerns. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 19 Any questions? 20 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 21 Madame Chair. 22 Move to adopt as published. 23 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Second. 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 25 made and seconded. All in favor? 21 ITEM NO. 9 1 (Ayes.) 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 3 (No response.) 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion carries. 5 MR. NANCE: Item No. 9, petition of IGT 6 to terminate the "Regis" slot system and to 7 transfer its progressive jackpot to the "Mega 8 Rides" slot system. 9 Mr. Briliant? 10 MR. BRILIANT: Good morning, Madame 11 Chair and Commissioners. 12 Mr. Previti is here on behalf of IGT. 13 Mr. Ficchi is pinch-hitting for Mr. Kimmel this 14 morning. 15 I have circulated a resolution to the 16 parties, and they've indicated it is 17 satisfaction to them. 18 And the matter is now before the 19 Commission. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 21 Mr. Previti? 22 MR. PREVITI: Good morning, Chair, 23 Commissions. 24 I guess, we have read the resolution and 25 are happy with it and would ask that you adopt 22 ITEM NO. 9 1 it. 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 3 Mr. Ficchi? 4 MR. FICCHI: Yes, thank you, Chair, 5 Commissioners. 6 As Mr. Previti indicated, the Division 7 has reviewed the draft resolution and has no 8 objection to its adoption. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 10 Any questions? 11 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 12 Madame Chair. 13 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Motion to adopt the 14 draft resolution and approve IGT's request to 15 transfer a progressive slot jackpot subject to 16 the conditions in the resolution. 17 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 19 made and seconded. All in favor? 20 (Ayes.) 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 22 (No response.) 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. PREVITI: Thank you. 23 ITEM NO. 10 1 MR. BRILIANT: Thank you. 2 MR. FICCHI: Thank you. 3 MR. NANCE: Item No. 10, application for 4 suspension for Jimmy Pham and Jennifer Tu Pham. 5 Ms. Frigen? 6 MS. FRIGEN: Good morning, Madame Chair. 7 Both Mr. and Mrs. Pham are present this 8 morning. Jennifer Pham is represented by John 9 Zarych. 10 Mr. Pham is here pro se. So after we 11 hear from the Division, I would suggest we take 12 Miss Pham's case first, have a vote, and then 13 proceed with Mr. Pham's case. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 15 Mr. Biscieglia? 16 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. On April 17 25th, 2007, both Jimmy and Jennifer Pham were 18 arrest by the New Jersey State Police and 19 charged with a violation of state tax uniform 20 procedure law contrary to NJSA 4:52-10 in 21 regards to both Mr. and Mrs. Pham. 22 In regards to Jennifer Pham, she was 23 also charged with tax structuring, money 24 laundering under NJSA 2C:21-25(e)(3). 25 The Respondents and their son and their 24 ITEM NO. 10 1 son's girlfriend were the targets of a police 2 investigation in the structuring of bank 3 accounts. On numerous occasions throughout 4 2006, Jennifer Pham deposited cash in amounts 5 of varying between $9500 and $9900, most of 6 them being in the amount of $9900 into Commerce 7 Bank accounts that were in the name of both 8 Jimmy Pham and their son Steven Pham. 9 Between September 15th, 2006, and 10 October 2nd, 2006, alone, ten such deposits in 11 the amount of $9900 were placed into Jimmy 12 Pham's account, and an additional eight 13 deposits in those amounts were placed in Steven 14 Pham's account. The Respondents structured 15 approximately 250,000 to to $300,000 in this 16 fashion. 17 State police have informed the Division 18 that -- as you can see, this arrest is quite 19 recent, April 25th. State police have informed 20 the Division that Jimmy Pham gave a taped 21 admission to police in regards to the tax 22 evasion charge. For the tax years of 2006, 23 Jimmy Pham claimed income in the amount of 24 $52,327. Jennifer Pham claimed income in the 25 amount of 37,001. 25 ITEM NO. 10 1 Initial investigation showed trace 2 amounts of narcotic on -- narcotics on the 3 monies deposited into the accounts. Jennifer 4 Pham has claimed to police that the money is as 5 a result of gambling winnings. However, the 6 casino reports given to the Division 7 investigators throughout their course of this 8 investigation and also the state police 9 investigators show nothing no support this 10 claim and no monies in the amount to support 11 any of these claims. Jennifer Pham is a rated 12 player at Borgata, and the records show she has 13 an overall $14,000 loss as a player at the 14 Borgata. 15 The IRS has become involved and has 16 seized the $300,000 deposited into the Commerce 17 accounts by the Phams. In addition, $250,000 18 worth of jewelry that was discovered during the 19 execution of a search warrant on the Phams' 20 residence has also been siezed by the IRS. 21 The Phams have not offered a believible 22 explanation as to where this money has come 23 from. Both work in the casinos in positions 24 where they have access to money. Mrs. Pham is 25 a dealer, and Mr. Pham is a slot technician. 26 ITEM NO. 10 1 They have shown they are willing to break the 2 law to -- in regards to financial gain through 3 their tax evasion and tax structure. Not only 4 are they willing to break the law for their 5 financial gain, but they're also willing to 6 involve others in their schemeing, including 7 their own son and their son's girlfriend. 8 And of even greater worry, now that the 9 Phams have had the illegal proceeds of this 10 structuring being seized by the IRS, what will 11 they do to recover this loss? And it puts a 12 fear into the Division of being in the position 13 of money in the casinos that they are. Now we 14 all -- we initially had the illegal conduct 15 that led to their benefit of this cash, and of 16 this financial benefit, but now they have lost 17 that financial benefit. 18 Based upon their actions, it's a risk to 19 the stated goals of both the Division and the 20 Commission to allow them to work in the casino 21 industry for even one more day, let alone the 22 time period that will take place before a 23 hearing can be scheduled in this matter. 24 Thank you. 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 27 ITEM NO. 10 1 Let me ask if there are any questions 2 for Mr. Biscieglia? 3 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions at 4 this time. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sir, would you enter 6 your appearance please? 7 MR. ZARYCH: Yes, thank you very much. 8 My name is John Zarych. I represent Jennifer 9 Pham. 10 Mr. Pham's indicated that he's going to 11 appear pro se, and I suspect that he's going to 12 tend to rely on things that I say on behalf of 13 Jennifer Pham to apply to him. 14 This is -- these two people are 15 innocent. They are innocent of any of the 16 charges that are -- have been leveled against 17 them. They have excellent character. They've 18 worked in this -- in the casino industry in 19 good jobs for the last 22 years. 20 They are dutiful parents. They tend not 21 to socialize a great deal. They tend to stick 22 within the family. Their pleasure is to take a 23 trip now and then -- maybe once a year, once 24 every couple years to their homeland. 25 They, Mr. Pham did not confess to -- my 28 ITEM NO. 10 1 understanding is from -- I think the evidence 2 would tend to show -- and I'm not making any 3 adoptive admissions here, so I'm not disclosing 4 any client privileges. But I'm just saying 5 that, based on what I've heard and what I've 6 investigated thus far, I think what this 7 situation shows is as follows: 8 They're good people. They're honest 9 people. They work hard at their job. They 10 don't take days off. They don't miss time. 11 They're not late. They've never had 12 infractions at their work. They are well 13 thought of. They more or less stick to 14 theirselves. They're certainly not involved in 15 any illegal activity, and neither are their -- 16 is their son or his girlfriend who was also 17 arrested in this case. 18 They lost another son a couple years ago 19 in an accident, and that was quite traumatic to 20 the family. It did cause some internal 21 adjustments, I would say, in the family. And 22 one of the -- I believe the evidence will tend 23 to show that the money that was in cash in the 24 Pham home was money that was accumulated over 25 the last 22 years. 29 ITEM NO. 10 1 And we all know that nobody wins in the 2 long run in the casino industry if you're 3 playing. You're not going to win money. But 4 various people have different ways of dealing 5 with their gambling or managing their gambling. 6 And I would submit that the evidence would tend 7 to show that Mrs. Pham had a habit of, when she 8 won a small amount of money, she would set it 9 aside and not touch it. Keep it in a safe, 10 basically. And then she would work and save in 11 order to get more money if she was going to 12 gamble again. That was the discipline. So 13 over a period of time, a large amount of money 14 built up. And this is over 22 years. 15 So -- and it is not uncommon in the 16 Vietnamese culture for families to accumulate 17 large amounts of cash and not really rely on 18 banking. And -- and, you know, it's common to 19 have a sort of a mistrust of the banking 20 system. 21 And, again, the Pham's are not social 22 butterfies. They're not actively involved in 23 the business community. They more or less just 24 stuck to themselves, raised their kids, went to 25 work and came home. And, again, took a trip 30 ITEM NO. 10 1 home from time to time. 2 So someone can lose -- as far as income 3 tax evasion, I am quite sure the evidence will 4 tend to show that Mrs. Pham lost much, much 5 more money over the years than the $300,000 she 6 had saved. And that $300,000 wasn't 7 necessarily all from gambling winnings. I 8 mean, it -- but she accumulated that amount of 9 money over a 22-year period and -- and, no 10 doubt, lost much more than that. So there's 11 no-- certainly tax losses. 12 Gambling losses are deductible against 13 gambling winnings. And it's -- it would be 14 hard to find any gambler who gambles over a 15 period of time on a more or less consistent 16 basis who has an income tax bill with the 17 federal government. We know these casinos 18 aren't built on people winning. She's not a 19 card counter or anything like that. Of course, 20 she lost money overtime. But her particular 21 pattern was, I submit, the evidence would tend 22 to show, that when she won, she set the money 23 aside and would not touch it. And her 24 discipline was to earn money in order to gamble 25 again. 31 ITEM NO. 10 1 There was a decision at the time -- and 2 this, again, I submit because of the family 3 turmoil and so forth -- to not keep a large 4 amount of -- this large amount of cash in the 5 house. That that cash was then -- a decision 6 was made to put it in the bank. I submit that 7 when the money was to be put in the bank -- and 8 there was no -- there was no reason, no tax 9 evasion, no structuring, no anything, no 10 illegal underlying reason. I submit that when 11 that money was to be put in the bank, they were 12 confronted with paperwork. The bank said, 13 well, you know -- tellers and this is typically 14 what they'll say. You know, if you put in over 15 10,000 cash, you have to fill out forms. They 16 said, oh, that -- so they said fine. We'll put 17 in 9500, 9900. 18 Went to the same bank. Consistently did 19 it. Did not use multiple accounts, accounts in 20 Vietnam, accounts in California, accounts in 21 New York. Did not use, you know, accounts in 22 other people's names and so forth. It was 23 strictly in the family and a matter of putting 24 this money in the hands of various members of 25 the family. Again, in a well intentioned and 32 ITEM NO. 10 1 morally proper way. 2 There is an indication that -- and I 3 think this really could be an indication of 4 weakness of the State's case, or the DGE's 5 case, an indication that they took some of this 6 cash, and apparently the state police took some 7 of this cash and had a dog sniff the cash. Or 8 one or two dogs sniff the cash. And, of 9 course, there was -- as is the case with every 10 batch of money in every casino in the city, 11 there is a trace of some illegal narcotics, 12 some cocaine, some whatever. People use bills 13 to snort or people do drug transactions with 14 money. It gets mixed up. You can go to the 15 bank. We could all reach in our pockets, put 16 the money on the table today, bring the dog in 17 and the dog will indicate on that money. So I 18 think that is really a very far stretch to -- 19 to seem to imply that this is narcotic money or 20 illegal money from any source. 21 The structuring laws and the banking 22 laws and the IRS laws are -- they're there to 23 get the bad guys. They're there to get people 24 that are doing things wrong and to protect 25 society from people who would seek to convert 33 ITEM NO. 10 1 illegal cash or untaxed cash into spendable 2 cash or usable cash. And that is not at all 3 what took place here. 4 Just -- they're the nicest people in the 5 world. And the, you know -- I submit that the 6 deposits by the children were simply as, you 7 know, in the form of errands. That, you know, 8 instead of mom having to go to the bank, would 9 you -- would you take this to the bank? That 10 sort of thing. 11 Not a -- there's no smoking gun. I did 12 talk to the Deputy Attorney General here, and I 13 said, as always when an attorney has what he 14 believes to be completely innocent people on 15 their hands, if there's something out there 16 that we don't know about, we'd certainly like 17 to know it. Nothing like that has been 18 produced thus far. I mean, there's no -- 19 there's no connection. 20 In fact, I think that one of the 21 troopers -- I am told in the investigation, one 22 of the troopers commented that we, you know -- 23 that they were watching for an extended period 24 of time to look for the bad guy, the drug 25 dealer, the bookie, the prostitution ring 34 ITEM NO. 10 1 person, whatever. And just never showed up. 2 And, in fact, were watching for a very long 3 period of time to see whether the Phams did 4 anything. And, actually, they don't do 5 anything. Again, they go to work. They come 6 home. They take care of one another. And 7 that's it. This is just a matter of, I think, 8 the Vietnam culture where it's not uncommon to 9 accumulate large amounts of cash. And a 10 particular discipline that Mrs. Pham had with 11 regard to her gambling. And one that, you 12 know, really does make some sense, that, you 13 know, if money was actually brought home from 14 the casino, winnings were brought home from the 15 casino, that that would stay in the place and 16 then more money will be worked for. And, of 17 course, losses would be incurred probably more 18 often than not. And once in a while, there 19 would be some more winnings, and that would be 20 saved. 21 It certainly would be interesting to see 22 how much of this cash was identified and 23 photographaed and saved to see the age of the 24 various bills here. And also Mrs. Pham did buy 25 her, you know, her one joy was she did buy 35 ITEM NO. 10 1 jewelry over the last 22 years, and she would 2 again save up money. Or when she had extra 3 money, she'd work for it and do that. 4 But basically -- aside from that they 5 just -- they're very frugal. They don't spend 6 money. They go to work. Excellent employees. 7 Very honest. Certainly in this short time we 8 don't have -- and in this environment, we don't 9 have the opportunity to bring in character 10 witnesses. But I can assure you they are there 11 in groups. My clients have gotten call after 12 call after call. And, you know this must be a 13 mistake. And anything we can do for you. That 14 kind of thing. 15 Just. It, you know, it may -- I'm quite 16 sure that when -- when money is put in in this 17 way -- well, first of all, I don't think real 18 crooks would be inclined to do this. I don't 19 think real crooks are going to walk in and just 20 consistently put in 9500, 8900, 9900 and in the 21 same bank and same tellers and so forth. I 22 don't -- I don't -- I think it's -- I don't 23 think bad guys are going to do it in that way. 24 This is just an innocent action. 25 I would ask the Commission -- I know 36 ITEM NO. 10 1 what the Commission's powers are, certainly. 2 The Commission has the opportunity to suspend. 3 But I submit there's no need for any protection 4 in this situation. There's -- there really 5 isn't a crime here, and these people are good 6 as gold. All they want to do is just go to 7 work and do what they've been doing for the 8 last 22 years, just make a living, come home. 9 You can attach conditions, you know, up 10 to here if you want as far as where they 11 deposit their money. Or we could have -- 12 weekly reporting of all the cash transactions 13 to the DGE, to the Commission, to anyone else. 14 There are ways to deal with circumstances like 15 this other than to really devastate the family 16 by -- by cutting off employment after 22 years 17 in the industry. 18 So that -- that completes my argument 19 and submission to you. And I think in 99 20 percent of the cases, you would not allow them 21 to keep their license for a period of time. 22 We -- another thing we could do is 23 revisit this in a couple months or three months 24 or something like that, if you allow them to 25 keep their license. We can -- to avoid the 37 ITEM NO. 10 1 devastation of loss of job and so forth. And, 2 you know, it's easy to keep a job if you're a 3 good worker, but sometimes if you're left out, 4 especially if you're on the upper end of the 5 age scale, it's difficult to get a job, 6 certainly after something like this really is 7 difficult. So I would ask you to really keep 8 the license and put whatever restrictions you 9 want. They'll gladly comply, and they'll do it 10 a hundred percent. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you, Mr. Zarych. 12 Let me ask whether before hear from Mr. 13 Pham if any of the Commissioners have any 14 questions at this point? 15 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: I do. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Fedorko? 17 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: You mentioned that 18 they didn't put money in banks because of 19 family turmoil. What do you mean by that? 20 MR. ZARYCH: Well, there was some -- I 21 think I can say that the evidence would tend to 22 show, again I'm not disclosing any 23 lawyer/client confidences, but the evidence 24 would tend to show that with the death of their 25 son, they were really -- and partially that 38 ITEM NO. 10 1 might have been because they didn't have a lot 2 of social support. They don't have -- they 3 don't socialize. They're not active in the 4 business community. They stick to themselves. 5 And then that loss of their son in an accident 6 was, you know -- just absolutely devastating to 7 them. And, you know, caused a lot of emotional 8 upset. The standard grief, but I think in 9 their case it was really exacerbating, you 10 know, anxiety, depression that sort of thing. 11 And there was -- Mrs. Pham was quite 12 devastated. And there was a concern at having 13 that much cash around, giving the -- given the 14 upset in the family. So it was -- there was a 15 decision made to put that cash in a bank really 16 for the protection -- the financial stability 17 and protection of the family while they were 18 going through this -- this devastating period. 19 (Conferring.) 20 MR. ZARYCH: She also purchased a CD. 21 It was eventually put into a CD. 22 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: You mentioned the 23 age of the bills. Are you saying that some of 24 the bills would be, like, 20 years old? 25 MR. ZARYCH: I'm not really sure. 39 ITEM NO. 10 1 That's something I thought of as I'm standing 2 here. 3 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Oh, okay. 4 MR. ZARYCH: And I said it would be 5 interesting, but I really have not investigated 6 that or even questioned anybody about that. 7 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Okay. 8 MR. ZARYCH: I know that they did have 9 some of the cash. And it would be interesting 10 to see how old the money is, and which could 11 have given an indication of over what period of 12 time it was accumulated. Of course, it's 13 possible, I guess to accumulate money and then 14 get newer money or use some of that money for a 15 reason. But I'm not sure about that. I just 16 thought that might be raised in your mind and 17 also it popped into my mind as I was here, so. 18 Most of the time, you know, this type of 19 scenario might -- might lead to discovering 20 criminal activity. But I think that there's 21 been none discovered so far from the -- except 22 the handling of the money, except the allegedly 23 handling of the money, there's no -- you know, 24 I think these cases come up where we have drug 25 dealers, we have prositution people, we have 40 ITEM NO. 10 1 organized crime. We have, you know, any number 2 of illegal people who are using these means. 3 And here, I submit, that all we have is -- are 4 people that saved their money in maybe a way 5 that's a little peculiar to the American 6 culture. But, from my understanding, not at 7 all peculiar to Vietnamese or other Asian 8 cultures. Large amounts of, I think -- I 9 recall stories of home invasions and so forth 10 where it's -- with Asian gangs. It's not 11 uncommon for there to be home invasions. 12 That's a big thing because large amounts of 13 cash are kept at home in Asian families so -- 14 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Mr. -- 15 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: I'm sorry. Go 16 ahead. 17 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Mr. Biscieglia, is 18 this an ongoing investigation? 19 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Yes. It is continuing 20 at this time. The criminal complaints were 21 just filed against both the Respondents on 22 April 25th of 2007. And, yes, this is an 23 ongoing investigation with the state police. 24 And the IRS is involved also, now. The IRS and 25 the state police seem to feel that Mr. Pham 41 ITEM NO. 10 1 will also eventually be indicted for the money 2 structure -- for the tax structuring charges as 3 well. 4 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Okay. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Frulio? 6 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: I just find it 7 hard to -- sitting in here that, knowing their 8 salaries and even denying the small pleasures 9 of life outside of electricity, gas, rent, 10 whatever, for 22 years, and then depositing 11 $9900 at a clip within a short period of time, 12 I just don't understand this. Why? 13 MR. ZARYCH: Yeah. Well -- 14 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Can you explain 15 this to me? 16 MR. ZARYCH: Mr. Commissioner, if we 17 had -- it's very simple. If anyone in this 18 room accumulated $300,000 over 22 years and had 19 it in a safe, for example and that, you know, 20 felt comfortable doing that, and that was 21 consistent with your culture -- or our culture. 22 And there was, you know, turmoil in the family 23 or decisions finally made that, hey, this is a 24 lot of money, and this is time to -- to -- it's 25 time to, you know, be more secure. And I don't 42 ITEM NO. 10 1 know how all that came about, but if their 2 decision to be more secure and do it in a more 3 American way, if you want to -- if you want to 4 say, then you would put money in the bank. 5 And if you're confronted with, if people 6 are not sophisticated and are confronted with a 7 teller who says, well, if you put over 10,000, 8 you have to fill out forms, a lot -- a lot of 9 people might say, okay, I'll put less than 10 10,000 in. It's not a problem. 11 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: To me, it's just 12 like something wrong with the mathmatics here 13 in my mind. 14 MR. ZARYCH: Well, if you figure out -- 15 if you figure out two hard-working people who 16 are very frugal over 22 years, you can 17 account-- you can easily accumulate $300,000. 18 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Really? I think 19 they should write a book. 20 MR. ZARYCH: Well -- 21 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: You're kidding me. 22 MR. ZARYCH: I'm sure they will after 23 this. This is quite a ride. 24 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Nice. Very nice. 25 It's fantastic. 43 ITEM NO. 10 1 MR. ZARYCH: Quite a scene. 2 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Thank you. 3 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Epps? 4 COMMISSIONER EPPS: You've represented 5 that they distrusted the banking system which 6 is why they kept most of their money at home. 7 MR. ZARYCH: I -- 8 COMMISSIONER EPPS: However, there were 9 accounts that existed. So they did what seems 10 to be regular banking. So what about the 11 $300,000 was different than the regular 12 banking, and why not 150,000? Why not, you 13 know, 200,000? Why, all of a sudden, do they 14 decide that they're regular banking is okay, 15 and now they're going to put $300,000 in the 16 bank? 17 MR. ZARYCH: Well, Mr. Commissioner, I'm 18 not saying that they distrusted the banking 19 system or they had specific distrust of the 20 banking system. I'm saying that's a cultural 21 phenomena in Vietnamese and Asian community 22 that people do tend to accumulate large amount 23 of cash at home. Not everyone, but that is 24 quite common. 25 Obviously they needed checking accounts 44 ITEM NO. 10 1 for direct deposit and to pay bills and for the 2 convenience -- convenience of having a checking 3 account and paying for certain things, and 4 credit -- they had a credit card and so forth, 5 and would use the credit card for purchases. 6 But that doesn't mean that they would feel 7 more-- that they would not feel more secure 8 having their cash or a large amount of cash in 9 a safe at home. 10 COMMISSIONER EPPS: I guess what I'm 11 saying is for me to buy into this argument, I 12 have to believe that they did whatever modest 13 banking, and then all of a sudden by 14 coincidence because of some triggering event, 15 they decided on consecutive days to start 16 putting money in the bank. Because that was a 17 better place for it. Just as a coincidence on 18 this particular -- this event triggered this 19 process where they went day by day and put 20 money in the bank as opposed to over the course 21 of 22 years making several deposits over time. 22 I have to believe -- I would have to believe 23 your argument that something -- some triggering 24 event made them then believe that a bank is a 25 better place for their money than their safe, 45 ITEM NO. 10 1 or whatever it was, all of a sudden and then by 2 coincidence they sequentially put small amounts 3 in. Accepting your argument to avoid the 4 paperwork of a $10,000 or more trans -- 5 MR. ZARYCH: If I could have just a 6 moment. 7 (Conferring.) 8 MR. ZARYCH: I think there are a number 9 of factors made into the decision. I mean, 10 obviously, there was a time when there was a 11 decision to put the money in the bank. And 12 that clearly came, and I think that was as a 13 result of a number of factors. 14 I think one of the factors, also, 15 interest rates recently rose fairly 16 significantly. So it wasn't that you could get 17 one percent or two percent on a CD. You know, 18 there was -- the CDs, for example, were paying 19 five percent. I think the one that they 20 bought, actually -- eventually bought was 21 paying five percent. So that -- that was 22 another factor. I mean, that's walking away -- 23 if you don't put in the money in the bank, 24 don't buy a CD, you're basically walking away 25 from $15,000 a year, which is somewhat 46 ITEM NO. 10 1 significant and -- 2 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Well, if I accept 3 that argument, over 22 years, the rates have 4 been a whole lot better -- 5 MR. ZARYCH: Sometimes. 6 COMMISSSIOENR EPPS: -- in the past than 7 they are now. So if you wanted to take 8 advantage of the rates, now wasn't the time. 9 There was a whole lot better rates, if that was 10 what you were going to do. But I won't even 11 engage. You don't have to go there -- 12 MR. ZARYCH: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIOENR EPPS: With that 14 representation. 15 MR. ZARYCH: I think that if you have, 16 you know -- if you have I guess 10, 20, 30,000 17 around over time, the interest you're passing 18 up on that is not that big a deal compared to 19 accumulating 300,000 and the interest rates 20 recently go up. I'm not saying that's the only 21 reason. But, again, there was -- there were -- 22 and also the evidence will show there was a 23 because of this instability, because of the 24 upset that was in the family, and I think that 25 was largely triggered by the loss of -- sudden 47 ITEM NO. 10 1 tragic loss of their son in an accident, there 2 was a -- they also made a decision to file 3 separate tax returns. Mr. Pham did that 4 because of, you know -- he felt, I think -- I 5 think, and I'm speculating somewhat, but there 6 was a sense of insecurity within the family as 7 to how things are going. And I think the 8 decision to put the money in the bank was one 9 that was prudent under the circumstances. 10 So there was a -- yeah. There did come 11 a point in time when the decision to put the 12 money in -- and then once the decision was 13 made, obviously, we have the records of what 14 happened. There were consistent deposits. 15 COMMISSIONER EPPS: I have one other. 16 MR. ZARYCH: But not with any criminal 17 intent or intent to avoid taxes or to hide drug 18 money or anything like that. 19 COMMISSIONER EPPS: And one other 20 question with respect to what you've 21 represented on the record. The other is that 22 you suggested that other family members made 23 deposits, also, just as a -- just basically 24 running errands. But the records seem to 25 indicate that the son deposited money in his 48 ITEM NO. 10 1 own account. 2 MR. ZARYCH: I think -- yeah. I think 3 that that was -- I think that that was a 4 decision that was consistent with -- 5 COMMISSIONER EPPS: I mean, running an 6 errand is here, take this money. Here's my 7 deposit slip. Put it in my account for me, 8 which can be done. You go and make a deposit. 9 Here take this money, and put it in your own 10 account doesn't seem to be an errand. 11 MR. ZARYCH: I think -- I think the 12 evidence would probably tend to show that Mr. 13 Pham never made any deposits at all. He didn't 14 handle any of the cash. 15 MR. PHAM: No. 16 MR. ZARYCH: Never handled any cash. 17 Never went to the bank. Never made any 18 deposits. And Mrs. Pham did make deposits and, 19 you know -- 20 COMMISSIONER EPPS: And I understand 21 that. And if all the deposits were made in the 22 joint account between Mr. and Mrs. Pham, that 23 would make sense. But now you got deposits 24 made in a separate account with the son and -- 25 the father? I think, separate account, that 49 ITEM NO. 10 1 just doesn't make it look like an errand as you 2 represented is -- 3 MR. ZARYCH: No. I mean, not 4 completely -- 5 If I may? 6 (Conferring.) 7 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Could I have a short 8 rebuttal to this argument? 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yeah. Sure. 10 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Before we carry on. 11 Just allow a short rebuttal. 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Oh, sure. I'm going 13 to allow Mr. Pham testify next. 14 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Okay. Fine. I can 15 talk after that? 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yes. Absolutely. I 17 would never deny your chance to talk, Mr. 18 Biscieglia. 19 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you very much. 20 MR. ZARYCH: Yes. I think the decision 21 to put in the money in accounts was legitimate. 22 I mean, I can't explain the entire play 23 by play at this time without really getting the 24 documents and going through it. But there was 25 no nefarious purpose here. 50 ITEM NO. 10 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 2 MR. ZARYCH: So. 3 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Pham, you wanted 4 to testify today. You need to stand and be 5 sworn. 6 MR. ZARYCH: He's indicated to me that 7 he does not want to testify. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: He does not. Okay. 9 MR. ZARYCH: He did indicate that to 10 you. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Mr. Bisieglia? 12 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 13 MR. ZARYCH: And he'll rely on my 14 arguements. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: On your arguemnts. 16 Very well. 17 MR. BISIEGLIA: One area in rebuttal. I 18 just wanted to address a short comment made by 19 Mr. Zarych when requesting anything the Divsion 20 had to give to him. The Division was made 21 aware of Mr. Zarych's representation of the 22 Phams at approximately 10:20 this morning. He 23 does have the criminal complaint, as the 24 Commission has, the investigation report and 25 the criminal complaint, which is the majority 51 ITEM NO. 10 1 of what the Division is relying on today. Due 2 to this being an ongoing investigation with the 3 state police, the Division hadn't even seen 4 some of the evidence that is available. 5 Is there a question of fact that will 6 need to be addressed at -- in both the criminal 7 court system and the hearing system with the 8 Division? Absolutely. There is a question of 9 fact. But today what we're looking at is the 10 question of a suspension in this matter. And 11 let's look at the facts we have to go on with 12 the suspension today. 13 Large amounts of income far exceeding 14 the approximately combined $90,000 a year 15 salaries of the Phams going into bank accounts 16 in a classic structuring mode. Mr. Zarych said 17 that this is not what -- this is not how 18 criminals operate or something to that effect. 19 But this is exactly how tax structuring occurs. 20 Putting in amounts of money $9900 so that cash 21 transaction reports have to be filed to avoid 22 that detection. 23 There has been statements as to the 24 distrust of banks and saving money for 22 25 years. Commissioner Epps touched upon this, 52 ITEM NO. 10 1 but I feel it's my duty to also state that in 2 the Division's eyes, 22 years of saving money 3 and then -- Commissioners Epps used the term 4 "triggering" event. Something that happened to 5 cause in a three-week period -- there are 6 deposits throughout the year, but there was a 7 heavy concentration in this time period between 8 September 15th and October 2nd of 2006 -- heavy 9 amounts of money going into this. 10 The police reports also bear that part 11 of the explanation was this interest rate of 12 five percent going to CDs. I remember that. 13 November I purchased a five-and-a-quarter CD 14 myself. But I do know that for 22 years of 15 money sitting in the safe, the interest rate is 16 zero. None. Because you don't make any 17 interest on it when it's sitting in your safe 18 at home. As an explanation to the -- to this 19 triggering -- this idea of putting the money 20 into the bank, I think it falls far short. 21 Also, there was talk of Mr. Zarych 22 paints his clients' as innocent people. 23 They're not crooks. They're not bad guys. I'm 24 not alleging anybody is a crook or a bad guy. 25 These are terms being applied toady. What we 53 ITEM NO. 10 1 are looking at is the factualy evidence today 2 of what exists at this time. And at this time, 3 as I said before, the large amounts of income 4 far exceeded what they owe, the way it was put 5 in the accounts in a classic structuring 6 matter, the fact that we still don't know where 7 this money is coming from. 8 Today the Division stands before you 9 seeking a suspension application. The Division 10 feels this is the only outcome that is -- that 11 is coincideing with the Commission's goals and 12 the Division's goals in guarding the casino 13 industry from this type of behavior. We have a 14 large question as to a lot of financial 15 situations. There is a lot -- there is 16 evidence to support in just the police records 17 alone that you have seen criminal activity. 18 The explanations that are being given today do 19 not -- are not sensical when aigned with the 20 evidence we have before us. 21 And, once again, the Commission, the 22 Division must ask that the only outcome that 23 protects the casino industry today is to 24 respectfully ask for the suspension application 25 to be granted. 54 ITEM NO. 10 1 Thank you. 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: And the situation that 3 both these individuals work in areas where they 4 are dealing with money. 5 MR. BISCIEGLIA: They both work -- as I 6 stated before, Mrs. Pham is a dealer, and Mr. 7 Pham is a slot technician. And not only that, 8 but the fact that they have involved others, 9 including their son and the son's girlfriend in 10 a tax structure scheme, shows a willingness to 11 involve others. Do we want a scene like this 12 taking root in a casino with all the financial 13 debt problems we deal on a, you know, a 14 bimonthly basis as we do at these meetings? Do 15 we want to deal with -- worry about that in 16 regards to this case while this ways can going 17 through its proper adjudication? 18 To me, the answer is clearly no. It is 19 a threat to our industry. And, once again, the 20 Division feels the only proper outcome is to 21 suspensd the applciation.. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 24 MR. ZARYCH: If I may just one fact -- 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Let me first see if 55 ITEM NO. 10 1 the Commissioners have any questions of Mr. 2 Biscieglia? 3 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: I have a 4 question, but it's not for Mr. Biscieglia. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 6 MR. ZARYCH: Just one fact that I forgot 7 to bring up. And Mr. Biscieglia might know 8 this at this point. Miss Pham kept a record of 9 the money in her safe. And seized from her -- 10 there was a raid, obviously, that the police 11 came in, took a lot of paperwork and other 12 things, some of which have been returned. But 13 seized was a piece of paper they kept in the 14 safe that had in it $300,000 written on the 15 year 2002, and she took $5,000 to go to Vietnam 16 that year for a trip. And it had the $5,000 17 reduced from that $300,000 and leaving 295,000. 18 That was written on a piece of paper and 19 siezed by the state police. Which indicated 20 that, you know, we didn't -- this money was 21 there -- roughly this amount of money was there 22 in 2002. And I submit that that is going to be 23 in the discovery that the police state police 24 got. And maybe Mr. Biscieglia knows that or 25 has something like that. Maybe not. But that 56 ITEM NO. 10 1 money -- that roughly -- that amount of money 2 was there in 2002. 3 And, again, there was gambling going on 4 on an onoing basis. And part of the -- you 5 know, part of the reason the money had to go in 6 the bank or wanted to go in the bank was 7 because another factor that Mrs. Pham didn't 8 want to gamble anymore. And that was causing 9 some difficulty in the family. So there are a 10 whole lot of factors come together. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Which I think would 12 come out once a hearing is schedule and once a 13 process -- 14 MR. ZARYCH: Yes. That record. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner 16 Sommeling? I know you had a question. 17 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: I just want to 18 get clear on one point, Counsel, with respect 19 to the -- for depositing all this money in such 20 a hurry with turmoil in the family -- within 21 the family, which you indicated was probably 22 started because of the death of another son. 23 And can you tell me when the other son passed 24 away or was killed? 25 MR. ZARYCH: When did -- 57 ITEM NO. 10 1 MRS. PHAM: Last May. May 2005. 2 MR. PHAM: May 31st. 3 MRS. PHAM: May 31st, 2005. 4 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: And when and 5 when did the series of deposits begin? Was 6 that preceding the son's -- 7 MRS. PHAM: 2006. 8 MR. ZARYCH: I can -- 9 MR. PHAM: September. 10 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: September 2006. 11 MR. ZARYCH: There was -- the Commission 12 has a record, and it's on the back of the -- 13 MRS. PHAM: 2006. Sometime in 2006. 14 MR. PHAM: September 2006, I believe. 15 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: And when was 16 the last date of deposit? 17 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yeah. Commissioner 18 Sommeling, I just want to be careful because 19 they're not sworn. 20 MR. ZARYCH: September 28th, 2006. 21 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: I was just 22 really asking -- 23 MR. ZARYCH: September 28th, 2006. And 24 September 22nd, 2006, is when the money started 25 to go in. So -- 58 ITEM NO. 10 1 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: When you said 2 the money started to go in, Counsel, you're 3 talking about all the accounts? A particular 4 account? 5 MR. ZARYCH: Yeah. I think the records 6 tend to show -- the records do show, not tend 7 to show, I'm sorry. I'm talking like a lawyer. 8 On September 28th, 2006, there was money put 9 into Steven's Pham's account. On -- Jennifer 10 Pham's account September 22nd, 2006, there was 11 money put into the account. So around -- 12 around that time. There was also a transfer in 13 June 13th, 2005, of $20,000 that -- I'm 14 assuming that might have had something to do 15 with the funeral or whatever. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 17 MR. ZARYCH: June 13th, '05. But in 18 other words, we can't say -- there's not just 19 one factor here. I think this was -- there 20 were a number of factors. If we accept that 21 the money was there in that amount in large 22 amount in 2002, then we don't have any 23 indication of recent drug dealing or recent 24 illegal activities or failure to file tax 25 returns. Money that came in in 2005 or '6, and 59 ITEM NO. 10 1 we have a family who, you know, lost a child, 2 and that -- that -- I think that sort of 3 destabilized things in the family and caused a 4 lot of concern. And there were a number of 5 things -- number of factors that went into the 6 decision to put this in. But I think, you 7 know, the family, we know that they filed 8 separate tax returns, that there was -- and 9 there was concern about Mrs. -- 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 11 MR. ZARYCH: Mrs. Pham's gambling, and 12 her intent was, in fact, not to stop gambling 13 and not have that cash around perhaps as a 14 temptation. But although she did have a pretty 15 good job of keeping the cash there. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER SOMMELIGN: No more 18 questions. 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Anything else, Mr. 20 Biscieglia? 21 MR. BISCIEGLIA: I would only respond 22 about the last thing, money in 2002. I know 23 that the casino reports show that the CD was 24 opened in 2006, but quite honestly, the fact 25 that $300,000 could have been in that safe, or 60 ITEM NO. 10 1 writing showing a deduction of 300,000 -- with 2 deductions in 2002. Depending on how many this 3 criminal activity has been continuing, who's to 4 know how much money has gone through this. 5 Basically, there was 300,000 in 2002. Was it a 6 $300,000 or the same $300,000 amount? I don't 7 think it really points to evidence of anything. 8 Thank you. We have nothing further. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Thank you. 10 Thank you. 11 I think we will do this as two separate 12 motions. 13 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Right. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: That's right. 15 Starting with Mrs. Pham? 16 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Madame Chair, I 17 make a motion to grant the Division's 18 application to suspend the casino employee 19 license held by Jennifer Pham pending final 20 disposition of the related complaint. 21 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Second. 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 23 made and seconded. All in favor? 24 (Ayes.) 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 61 ITEM NO. 10 1 (No response.) 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion carries. 3 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: I would also make 4 the motion to grant the Division's application 5 to suspend the casino employee license of Jimmy 6 Pham pending the final disposition of the 7 related complaint. 8 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Second. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion is made and 10 seconded. All in favor 11 MR. INGIS: Madame Chair, if I may 12 interject before make a vote. Mr. Pham should 13 have the opportunity to speak. I know we have 14 the representations of Counsel, but he should 15 be given the chance. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: He indicated that -- 17 okay. 18 MR. INGIS: All we had indicated was 19 that to Mr. Zarych. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: That's correct, but he 21 indicated by Mr. Zarych that he does not want 22 to testify. 23 MR. INGIS: I know, but he should said 24 that. 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: On the record. 62 ITEM NO. 10 1 MR. ZARYCH: I can kind of voir dire 2 him. I'm not his lawyer but -- 3 COMMISSIONER EPPS: We can ask him. 4 Mr. Pham, is there anything you wish to 5 say on the record? 6 MR. PHAM: Right now I don't want to say 7 anything. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Very good. 9 I think we had a motion and a second. 10 All in favor? 11 (Ayes.) 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 13 (No response.) 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Obviously as part of 15 this process, a hearing will be scheduled at 16 some point, and then you'll have the 17 opportunity to be heard on the facts. 18 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you for your time 19 in this matter. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 21 MR. ZARYCH: Thank you very much. 22 MR. NANCE: In accordance with 23 Resolution No. 06-12-13-20, the next closed 24 session of the Commission shall be held on 25 Wednesday, May 16th, 2007, at 9:15 a.m. in the 63 1 Commission offices. 2 It is now time for the public 3 participation of the meeting. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Is there anyone from 5 the public who wishes to be heard? 6 Seeing no one, I'll declare this portion 7 of the meeting closed and entertain a motion to 8 adjourn. 9 VICE CHAIR FEDORKO: Motion to adjourn. 10 COMMISSIIONER SOMMELING: Second. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 12 made and seconded. All in favor? 13 (Ayes.) 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion carries. 17 (Public Meeting 07-05-02 was adjourned 18 at 11:38 a.m.) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 64 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T E 3 4 5 I, DARLENE SILLITOE, a Certified 6 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the 7 State of New Jersey, certify that the foregoing 8 is a true and accurate transcript of the 9 proceedings. 10 11 12 I further certify that I am neither 13 attorney, of counsel for, nor related to or 14 employed by any of the parties to the action; 15 further that I am not a relative or employee of 16 any attorney or counsel employed in this case; 17 nor am I financially interested in the action. 18 19 20 DARLENE SILLITOE CSR 21 License No XI01023 22 23 Dated: May 7, 2007 24 My Commission Expires on July 10, 2009 25 ID No 2062871