1 1 STATE OF NEW JERSEY 2 CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4 5 PUBLIC MEETING NO. 08-05-21 6 7 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8 9 Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10 Atlantic City Commission Offices 11 Joseph P. Lordi Public Meeting Room - First Floor 12 Tennessee Avenue and Boardwalk 13 Atlantic City, New Jersey 08401 14 10:36 a.m. to 12:03 p.m. 15 16 17 Certified Court Reporter: Darlene Sillitoe 18 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 19 20 ATLANTIC CITY COURT REPORTING, LLC 21 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS AND VIDEOGRAPHERS 22 1125 ATLANTIC AVENUE, SUITE 416 23 ATLANTIC CITY, NEW JERSEY 08401 24 (609) 345-8448 www.accourtreporting.com 25 2 1 B E F O R E : 2 CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION: LINDA M. KASSEKERT, CHAIR 3 WILLIAM T. SOMMELING, VICE CHAIR MICHAEL A. FEDORKO, COMMISSIONER 4 MICHAEL C. EPPS, COMMISSIONER RALPH G. FRULIO, COMMISSIONER 5 6 PRESENT FOR THE CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION: DARYL W. NANCE, ADMINISTRATIVE ANALYST 7 DANIEL J. HENEGHAN, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER 8 OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL: DIANNA W. FAUNTLEROY, GENERAL COUNSEL/EXECUTIVE 9 SECRETARY LEONARD J. DIGIACOMO, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL 10 MARY WOZNIAK, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL STEVEN M. INGIS, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL 11 E. DENNIS KELL, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL SETH H. BRILIANT, SENIOR COUNSEL 12 LON E. MAMOLEN, SENIOR COUNSEL BERNADETTE T. FRIGEN, PROGRAM SUPERVISOR 13 CLAIRE FRANK, PROGRAM SUPERVISOR 14 DIVISION OF GAMING ENFORCEMENT: DEPUTY ATTORNEYS GENERAL 15 BRIAN BISCIEGLIA, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL TIMOTHY C. FICCHI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 16 MARYJO FLAHERTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMES FOGARTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 17 DIVISION OF LICENSING: 18 DORIS MANZANO, SECRETARIAL ASSISTANT/INTERPRETER 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S : 2 ITEM NO. 5c BERNADETTE T. FRIGEN, PROGRAM SUPERVISOR BRIAN BISCIEGLIA, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 3 WAYNE POWELL, ESQ. FOR: ANTHONY M. TAYLOR 4 ITEM NO. 9 LEONARD J. DiGIACOMO, ASSISTANT GENERAL 5 COUNSEL MARY JO FLAHERTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 6 PASHMAN STEIN SEAN MACK, ESQ. 7 FOR: JUSTICE STEIN DEBEVOISE & PLIMPTON 8 RICHARD HAHN, ESQ. MICHAEL BLAIR, ESQ. 9 FOR: DEBEVOISE & PLIMPTON 10 ITEM NO. 10 CLAIRE FRANK, PROGRAM MANAGER JAMES FOGARTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 11 FOX ROTHSCHILD NICHOLAS CASIELLO, JR., ESQ. 12 FOR: MAC CORP. 13 ITEM NO. 11 E. DENNIS KELL, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL TIMOTHY C. FICCHI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 14 LORETTA I. PICKUS, ESQ. FOR: TRUMP PLAZA ASSOCIATES 15 ITEM NO. 12 E. DENNIS KELL, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL 16 TIMOTHY J. LOWRY, ESQ. FOR: BALLY'S PARK PLACE, INC. 17 ITEM NO. 13 SETH H. BRILIANT, SENIOR COUNSEL 18 TIMOTHY C. FICCHI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL RICHARD GULLOTA 19 FOR: DIAMOND GAMING 20 ITEM NO. 20 MARY WOZNIAK, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL MARY JO FLAHERTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL 21 TIMOTHY C. FICCHI, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL TIMOTHY J. LOWRY, ESQ. 22 FOR: HARRAH'S ENTERTAINMENT, ET AL 23 ITEM NO. 21 STEVEN M. INGIS, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL STERNS & WEINROTH 24 DENNIS DALY, ESQ. JAMES R. MAIDA, ESQ. 25 FOR: GAMING LABORATORIES 4 1 AGENDA PUBLIC MEETING NO. 08-05-21 2 MAY 21, 2008, 10:36 a.m. ITEM PAGE VOTE 3 1 Ratification of the minutes of 9 9 April 30, 2008 4 2 Applications for employee and casino service industry licenses 5 5 applications remanded for hearings 10 10 8 applications granted 11 11 6 Applications of: American Building Maintenance Co. of 10 11 7 New York, LLC (initial) Agate Construction Company, Inc. (Renewal) 8 Qualification of Lucretia Fetcho, Vice 12 12 President of Database Marketing-Eastern 9 Division for Bally's Park Place, Inc., Boardwalk Regency Corporation, Marina 10 Associates, and Atlantic City Showboat, Inc. 3 Stipulations of settlement and consent 11 agreements: a) Mildred R. Dennis (07-0732-EA) 13 15 12 b) Denise D. Celotto (07-0619-ER) 13 15 c) Wanda L. Hunter 08-0038-ER) 13 15 13 d) Evelyn Outterbridge (a/k/a 13 15 Outerbridge) (08-0040-ER) 14 e) Lidia Munguia (a/k/a Claudia 13 15 Nazario) (07-0691-RC) 15 f) Ashleen M. Dicanio (07-0731-EA) 13 15 g) Clare E. Wooton (08-0292-EA) 13 15 16 h) Perry P. Lippowitsch 07-0630-ER) 13 15 i) Robert D. Moran (07-0631-ER) 13 15 17 j) Donna L. Robinson (07-0220-ER) 13 15 k) Miriam Santiago (06-0121-RC) 13 15 18 l) Shannon E. Cremin (08-0011-EA) 13 15 m) Brian R. Zartarian (07-0490-EA) 13 15 19 n) Lasha A. Mack (a/k/a Lashea Mack) 13 15 (07-0685-ER) 20 o) Jerome B. Manuel (08-0229-EA) 13 15 p) Gregory White (08-0110-EA) 13 15 21 4 Petition for early reapplication of 15 21 Daysi M. Perez (a/k/a Daisy Garcia) 22 (08-0612-RA) Sworn 16 5 Applications for suspension: 23 a) Annie K. Grajales (a/k/a Annie 21 23 Grajales Ospina (08-0377-RC) 21 23 24 b) Deborah E. McCoy (08-0312-RC) 21 23 c) Anthony M. Taylor (078-0325-RC) 23 42 25 d) Raul M. Vega (08-0378-RC) 21 23 5 1 CONTINUED AGENDA PUBLIC MEETING NO. 08-05-21 2 MAY 21, 2008, 10:36 a.m. ITEM PAGE VOTE 3 6 Petition of Aruze Corporation and Aruze adj. Gaming America, Inc., for a waiver of 4 qualification (PRN 0440801) 7 Petition of Harrah's Entertainment, Inc., adj. 5 for approval of a plan of reorganization of Information Technology Department (PRN 1200802) 6 8 Adoption of amplifying statement in 43 44 petition of Highgate Steel for release of 7 monies (PRN 1630701) 9 Application of the Conservator and Trustee 44 71 8 for the former casino licensee Adamar of New Jersey, Inc., for approval of fees for the 9 Law firm consultants, Debovoise & Plimpton, LLC, for the period of January through March 10 Richard Hahn, Sworn 58 10 Petition of MAC, Corp., for William 72 74 11 Hornbuckle to perform the duties and exercise the responsibilities of President and Chief 12 Operating Officer pending qualification (PRN 1050805) 13 11 Petition of Trump Plaza Associates 75 76 (d/b/a Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino) for 14 an amendment to its operation certificate to expand and reconfigure its gaming floor 15 (PRN 1330801) 12 Petition of Bally's Park Place, Inc., 77 78 16 (d/d/a Bally's Atlantic City) for relief from certain conditions in Resolution No. 17 02-25-19 (PRN 1400811) 13 Petition of Diamond Gaming, LLC, and Trump 79 81 18 Taj Mahal Associates (d/b/a Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort) for approval of "Diamond 19 Roulette" pursuant to NJAC 19:47-8.4 (PRN 1370801, 2480706; 20 and Proposed publication and temporary adoption of amendments to NJAC 19:46-1.7 and 21 19:47-5.1 (Diamond Roulette) 14 Reproposed publication of amendment to 81 82 22 NJAC 19:45-1.33 (Negative Poker Revenue) 15 Proposed publication and temporary adoption 82 83 23 of amendment to NJAC 19:45-1.18 (Card Inspection for Single Use Cards) 24 25 6 1 CONTINUED AGENDA PUBLIC MEETING NO. 08-05-21 2 MAY 21, 2008, 10:36 a.m. ITEM PAGE VOTE 3 16 Proposed publication and temporary 83 86 adoption of amendments for optional 4 bonus wagers in Asia Poker; authorization of rulemaking experiment for optional 5 bonus pair wagers in Asia Poker pursuant to NJSA 5:12-69e 6 17 Proposed adoption of amendment to 86 87 NJAC 19:45-1.3 (Immediate implementation 7 of internal controls) 18 Readoption of NJAC 19:55 (Casino 87 88 8 Simulcasting) 19 Proposed readoption of NJAC 19:46 88 89 9 (Gaming Equipment) 20 Petition of Harrah's Entertainment, Inc., 89 91 10 Harrah's Operating Company, Inc., (HOC, Harrah's Atlantic City Operating Company, 11 LLC, Showboat Atlantic City Operating Company, LLC, Bally's Park Place and Boardwalk Regency 12 Corp., for waiver of qualification for corporate office positions (PRN 1280805) 13 21 Petition of Gaming Laboratories 92 93 International, Inc., and Gaming Laboratories 14 International, LLC, for transactional waivers to permit petitioners to continue to operate 15 a slot machine testing laboratory (PRN 0640802) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 1 E X H I B I T S : 2 ITEM NO. 2 DESCRIPTION EVD 3 4 EL-1 Remand for hearings 5 license X applications 5 EL-2 Grant 8 licenses X 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (Exhibits retained by Commission.) 25 8 1 (Public Meeting 08-05-21 was commenced 2 at 10:36 a.m.) 3 MR. NANCE: I'd like to read an opening 4 statement: 5 This is to advise the general public 6 that in compliance with Chapter 231 of the 7 Public Laws of 1975 entitled the "Open Public 8 Meetings Act," the New Jersey Casino Control 9 Commission on October 16th, 2006, filed with 10 the Secretary of State at the State House in 11 Trenton an annual meeting schedule. On October 12 16th, copies were mailed to subscribers. 13 Members of the press will be permitted 14 to take photographs, and we would ask that this 15 be done in a manner which is not disruptive or 16 distracting to the Commission. 17 The use of cellular telephones in the 18 public meeting room while the Commission is in 19 session is prohibited. 20 Any members of the public who wish to 21 address the Commission will be given the 22 opportunity to do so before the Commission 23 adjourns for the day. 24 Please stand for the Pledge of 25 Allegiance. 9 ITEM NO. 1 1 (The flag salute was recited.) 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Good morning. 3 MR. NANCE: Good morning. 4 The matters discussed in closed session 5 were: Employee and enterprise license matters. 6 The Commissioners approved the April 7 30th, 2008, closed session minutes. 8 Litigation update regarding Tyron J. 9 Floyd versus the Casino Control Commission and 10 the Sands Hotel Casino; 11 And in the matter of petition of SD for 12 removal from the voluntary self-exclusion list; 13 Petition of Tropicana, et al., for 14 renewal of casino license; 15 And petition of Highgate Steel for 16 release of monies. 17 Item No. 1, ratification of the minutes 18 of April 30th, 2008, public meeting. 19 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Motion to 20 approve. 21 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Seconded. 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 23 made and seconded. All in favor? 24 (Ayes.) 25 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Abstain. 10 ITEM NO. 2 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries with 2 one abstention; Commissioner Sommeling 3 abstaining. 4 MR. NANCE: Item No. 2, application for 5 employee and casino service industry licenses. 6 This agenda item will be entered as Exhibit 7 List 1 and 2. 8 Exhibit List 1 consists of five 9 applications for initial and/or renewal of five 10 applications for initial. 11 The Division has objected to licensure. 12 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to remand 13 for hearings. 14 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Seconded. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 16 made and seconded. All in favor? 17 (Ayes.) 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 21 MR. NANCE: For consideration is the 22 casino service industry license application of 23 American Building Maintenance Company of New 24 York, LLC, and the Agate Construction Company, 25 Inc. 11 ITEM NO. 2 1 The Division has objected to these 2 applications. 3 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to remand 4 for hearing. 5 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 7 made and seconded. All in favor? 8 (Ayes.) 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 10 (No response.) 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 12 MR. NANCE: Exhibit List 2 consists of 13 eight applications for initial and/or renewal 14 of casino key and casino employee licenses. 15 The staff and the Division have 16 recommended that these licenses be granted. 17 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to grant 18 applications. 19 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 21 made and seconded. All in favor? 22 (Ayes.) 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 24 (No response.) 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 12 ITEM NO. 2 1 MR. NANCE: For consideration is the 2 application for renewal of a casino key 3 employee license and for qualification of 4 Lecretia Fetcho, Vice President of Database 5 Marketing, Eastern Division, for Bally's Park 6 Place, Inc., Boardwalk Regency Corporation, 7 Marina Associates, and Atlantic City Showboat, 8 Inc. 9 Staff and the Division have recommended 10 that this application be granted. 11 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Motion to grant 12 for key license and qualification. 13 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion is made and 15 seconded. This is a roll call vote. 16 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Frulio? 17 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Yes. 18 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Fedorko? 19 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Yes. 20 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Epps? 21 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Yes. 22 MR. NANCE: Vice Chair Sommeling? 23 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Yes. 24 MR. NANCE: Chair Kassekert? 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yes. 13 ITEM NO. 3 1 MR. NANCE: The record will reflect that 2 the motion is unanimous. 3 Item No. 3, stipulation of consent and 4 consent agreements. When I call your name, 5 please come forward, stand behind this middle 6 table, spreading across the room so that you 7 may be seen: Mildred Dennis, Denise Celotto, 8 Wanda Hunter, Evelyn Outterbridge, Lidia 9 Munguia, Ashleen Dicanio, Clare Wooten, Perry 10 Lippowitsch, Robert Moran, Donna Robinson, 11 Miriam Santiago, Shannon Cremin, Brian 12 Zartarian, Lasha Mack, Jerome Manuel, and 13 Gregory White. 14 Mr. Ingis? 15 MR. INGIS: Good morning, Madame Chair, 16 Commissioners. 17 At this time the staff has nothing to 18 add. 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 20 I'm going to ask you that you each state 21 your name for record, starting with you, sir. 22 MR. LIPPOWITSCH: Perry Lippowitsch. 23 MS. WOONTON: Clare Woonton. 24 MS. OUTTERBRIDGE: Evelyn Outterbridge. 25 MS. DENNIS: Mildred Dennis. 14 ITEM NO. 3 1 MS. MUNGUIA: Lidia Munguia. 2 MS. ROBINSON: Donna Robinson. 3 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Sir, your name? 4 MR. ZARTARIAN: Brian Zartarian. 5 MR. WHITE: Gregory White. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sir? 7 UNIDENTIFIED: I come with her. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Oh, come with her. 9 All right. 10 In a moment we're going to vote on the 11 stipulations of settlement which you've agreed 12 to with the Division of Gaming Enforcement. 13 I'm going to ask at this point if any of you 14 wish to be heard on your matter. You don't 15 have to say anything if you don't want. 16 Does anyone wish to be heard? 17 (No response.) 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 19 Mr. Biscieglia? 20 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. Good 21 morning, Chair, Commissioners. 22 The Division has nothing further and ask 23 that the stipulations be adopted as submitted. 24 Thank you. 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 15 ITEM NO. 4 1 Any questions? 2 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Madame Chair, 3 move to approve the stipulations. 4 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 6 made and seconded. All in favor? 7 (Ayes.) 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 11 Thank you for coming. Good luck. 12 FROM THE FLOOR: Thank you. 13 MR. NANCE: Item No. 4, petition for 14 early reapplication for Daysi M. Perez. 15 Miss Frigen? 16 MS. FRIGEN: Good morning, Madame Chair 17 Commissioners. 18 Miss Perez is here. And also present is 19 Commissioner staff member Doris Manzano to 20 assist with translating. 21 For your consideration is Mrs. Perez's 22 petition in which she seeks permission to 23 reapply early for a license registration and 24 for a noncredential hotel employment. 25 The Division has interposed an objection 16 ITEM NO. 4 1 to this petition. 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 3 Ms. Perez, is there anything you'd like 4 to say today? 5 MS. PEREZ: Yes. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Are you -- yes, I 7 guess -- okay. 8 You need to be stand and be sworn in. 9 Stand up. 10 And Doris will translate for you. 11 Go ahead, Daryl. 12 13 DAYSI M. PEREZ, was duly sworn to 14 testify in this matter through an interpreter. 15 16 MR. NANCE: Please state your name for 17 the record. 18 MS. PEREZ: Daysi Perez. 19 MR. NANCE: Thank you. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: What would you like to 21 tell us today? 22 MR. NANCE: Miss Manzano, we need to 23 swear you in, too. 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Oh, yes. Right. 25 DORIS MANZANO, was duly sworn to 17 ITEM NO. 4 1 translate in this matter. 2 THE WITNESS: I would just like for you 3 to consider my case and give my permission to 4 get my license so I can get my employment. 5 That's all I have to say. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Let me ask if 7 any of the Commissioners have any questions? 8 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: No questions, 9 Madame Chair. 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Epps, you 11 want to hear from the Division first? 12 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Yes. 13 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Mr. Biscieglia? 14 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 15 The Division has opposed this petition. 16 The Respondent's casino employee license was 17 revoked by a letter order on August 31st of 18 2005. This was based upon her May 26, 2004, 19 arrest when she was charged with forgery, 20 fourth degree, contrary to NJSA 2C:21-1, 21 wrongful impersonation, contrary to NJSA 22 2C:21-17.2, second degree. 23 Now, while these charges were dismissed 24 on August 16th of 2004, in the letter order of 25 August 31st, 2005, the Commission found that 18 ITEM NO. 4 1 the Petitioner constructively admitted to the 2 conduct set forth in the Division's complaint 3 and found her disqualified pursuant to NJAC 4 5:12-108(d). 5 As we stand here today, this is roughly 6 two -- two and a half years, plus a couple 7 months, since the date of the disqualifying 8 conduct which the Division feels is too short a 9 time frame to find -- to grant the Petitioner's 10 petition. 11 But even if you take that out of the 12 equation, the petition itself does not hold up 13 to the standards that the Division would like 14 to see. Initially the petition does not 15 acknowledge any of the issues surrounding the 16 revocation of the casino employee license. It 17 fails to disclose the criminal matters set 18 forth in the Division's complaint. It claims 19 that the Respondent's casino employee license 20 was revoked not due to the criminal charges as 21 found by the letter order but because of a 22 matter regarding her immigration status, which 23 is factually incorrect. 24 And none of the three -- I believe, 25 three character letters submitted in support of 19 ITEM NO. 4 1 the petition acknowledge any type of criminal 2 charges whatsoever. So based upon the 3 foregoing, the Division asks that this petition 4 be denied. 5 Thank you. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Let me ask if there 7 are any questions. 8 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: I have no 9 questions, Madame Chair. 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Epps? 11 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Mr. Biscieglia, what 12 type of like -- or credential did the 13 Respondent have? 14 MR. BISCIEGLIA: A casino employee 15 license. 16 COMMISSIONER EPPS: A gaming license? 17 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Ms. Perez, what did 19 you do at the casino? 20 THE WITNESS: Security. 21 Before that I worked in housekeeping. 22 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Do you understand 23 what the Division is saying, is that your 24 application or your petition here seeking to 25 get your license back didn't go into detail 20 ITEM NO. 4 1 some of the things that happened in the past? 2 (Conferring.) 3 THE WITNESS: I understand that. But 4 when I -- when we that meeting last time, the 5 reason I was told that my license would not be 6 renewed was because I did not have my INS 7 papers, which I do now. 8 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Bernadette, you 9 wanted to add -- 10 MS. FRIGEN: Commissioner Epps, and 11 Chair and Commissioners, I don't want to act as 12 an advocate for the Petitioner, but because of 13 her language barrier problems, I just want to 14 note that on Page 6, Question 3, it's really 15 asking for any criminal record subsequent to 16 the issuance of the denial or revocation order. 17 It's my understanding from reading the 18 matters that are outlined in the Division's 19 position letter that all those predated the 20 order. So she, in fact, although she added 21 some things, wasn't under an obligation to 22 disclose her earlier record. So I just want to 23 clarify that for the Commission's 24 consideration. 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. Thank you. 21 ITEM NO. 5 1 Mr. Biscieglia? 2 MR. BISCIEGLIA: I would just say 3 nonetheless, it is that the charges and the 4 actual reason for the revocation of the license 5 in the first place are not matching. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 7 Commissioner Frulio? 8 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: I'm just going to 9 make a motion that we grant Miss Perez 10 permission to reapply early for a casino 11 employee license, a casino service employee 12 registration, and/or to obtain employment early 13 as a noncredential hotel employee. 14 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Second. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 16 made and seconded. All in favor? 17 (Ayes.) 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 21 MS. MANZANO: Thank you. 22 THE WITNESS: Gracias. Yes. Thank you. 23 MR. NANCE: Item No. 5, application for 24 suspension for Annie Grajales, Deborah McCoy, 25 Anthony Taylor, and Raul Vega. 22 ITEM NO. 5 1 Miss Frigen? 2 MS. FRIGEN: Madame Chair, 3 Commissioners, Mr. Powell is here with respect 4 to Anthony Taylor's case. 5 In addition, I would note that with 6 respect to Deborah McCoy, Vincent Valamore, I 7 spoke with him by telephone yesterday. He 8 advised that they had determined not to contest 9 the application for suspension, so they will 10 not be here. 11 Let me ask whether Annie Grajales or 12 Raul Vega is present or represented? 13 (No response.) 14 MS. FRIGEN: Okay. 15 So with respect to a, b and d, there is 16 nobody here on behalf of those cases. And we 17 have legal representation with respect to Mr. 18 Tailor. 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Why don't we 20 proceed with a, b, and d first. 21 Mr. Biscieglia? 22 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 23 With regards to b, Deborah McCoy, that 24 matter is currently pending a grand jury with 25 no date set. 23 ITEM NO. 5 1 In regards to a, Annie Grajales, that 2 matter is scheduled for a pre-arraignment 3 conference on May 29th, 2008, in connection 4 with the indictment. 5 And, finally, d, Raul Vega, Mr. Vega 6 pled guilty to the charges of theft of property 7 lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake on April 8 8th, 2008, in Atlantic City Municipal Court. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 10 Any questions? 11 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Madame Chair, I move 13 for suspension of credentials on Items 5a, b, 14 and d. 15 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 17 made and seconded. All in favor? 18 (Ayes.) 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 20 (No response.) 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 22 We'll proceed with c. 23 MS. FRIGEN: And I would ask the 24 Division to go forward first, since this is an 25 application for suspension. 24 ITEM NO. 5 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Suspension. Correct. 2 Mr. Biscieglia? 3 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 4 The Division has moved for suspension on 5 the Respondent's employee license. On January 6 11th, 2008, the Petitioner was arrested for 7 possession of marijuana with intent to 8 distribute, third degree, conspiracy to possess 9 controlled dangerous substance, and possession 10 of controlled dangerous substance, both of 11 those charges are in the fourth degree. 12 Investigation by the New Jersey State 13 Police Casino Enforcement Bureau revealed that 14 the Respondent was supplying quantities of 15 marijuana to another individual who then sold 16 the marijuana to an undercover detective on 17 three separate occasions. These sales took 18 place at the Borgata casino and in the Borgata 19 parking lot. 20 Now, at the time of the filing of the 21 Division's complaint, certain records were not 22 available to the Division based upon the 23 situation regarding a confidential informant. 24 However, at this time the confidential 25 informant is no longer confidential. He's been 25 ITEM NO. 5 1 released from the program. The Division has 2 provided the Commission with the November 29, 3 2007, taped statement of John Shandellini 4 (phonetic) that was conducted by the New Jersey 5 State Police Casino Enforcement Bureau. This 6 statement links the records that were forwarded 7 on in the Division's complaint being the August 8 1st, 2007, New Jersey State Police 9 investigation report and the January 11, 2008, 10 investigation report. 11 The confidential informant at the time, 12 as I had mentioned, Mr. Shandellini, the 13 Division has also drafted a complaint against 14 his credential involving this situation and 15 another situation which led to his dismissal 16 from the program, and that will be filed soon. 17 But these records were just made available to 18 the Division very recently. 19 Thank you. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 21 Mr. Powell? 22 MR. POWELL: Good morning. 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Good morning. 24 MR. POWELL: I've had an opportunity to 25 review what was submitted to the committee in 26 ITEM NO. 5 1 support of the application to suspend Mr. 2 Taylor's license. I can indicate that the 3 statement by Mr. Shandellini was apparently 4 sent out to my office and received on Monday. 5 I've had some very brief opportunity to review 6 it between Monday and today. The statement 7 comprises some 50 pages. 8 My objection to the imposition of a 9 suspension at this time is that there are 10 several reasons for why I think it's 11 inappropriate to move -- at least at this 12 time -- with respect to Mr. Taylor's license. 13 And I do understand that the application is 14 made by the Attorney General's office is an 15 emergent application. 16 Mr. Taylor, of course, because he has a 17 casino license, relies upon that license for 18 his employment on a daily basis. The 19 allegations against Mr. Taylor arise solely 20 from the statement which has now been revealed 21 to us to be the statement by Mr. Shandellini, 22 who is the individual who actually made the 23 undercover sales to the New Jersey State 24 Police. 25 I've had an opportunity to see the 27 ITEM NO. 5 1 respective New Jersey State Police 2 investigative reports that have been referred 3 to. None of those reports refer to Mr. Taylor 4 in any way. The transactions did not involve 5 Mr. Taylor. Mr. Taylor was not present during 6 these transactions between Shandellini and 7 state police. The only connection to this 8 matter with respect to Mr. Taylor is the 9 representations of Mr. Shandellini. 10 Mr. Shandellini, obviously, has an 11 interest in representing that he is involved 12 with others because it affords him to 13 opportunity to attempt to make a deal with the 14 state police. And if the Commissioners have 15 had an opportunity to review the statement, you 16 will note that in the very first few pages of 17 the statement, Mr. Shandellini is attempting to 18 cut a deal, so to speak, with the state police 19 and is reluctant in his representations to 20 commit to appearing and testifying against the 21 persons that he later names in his statement. 22 I suggest that that should give this 23 commission some pause in accepting as gospel 24 those statements which are contained in Mr. 25 Shandellini's taped statement and the 28 ITEM NO. 5 1 representations which he sets forth with 2 respect to his contact with Mr. Taylor. 3 There are no observations of Mr. Taylor 4 being in possession of any narcotic. There is 5 no police officer who can or will appear and 6 testify that he has had any contact of any 7 nature whatsoever with Mr. Taylor. All of the 8 contacts, as far as I can glean from the 9 respective state police reports and the 10 statement of Mr. Shandellini, have been 11 contacts between state police officials and Mr. 12 Shandellini. 13 I would suggest that because the 14 ramifications of a suspension for Mr. Taylor 15 are so significant that it is inappropriate at 16 this time without more to impose a suspension. 17 And I would ask that the application for 18 suspension be denied. 19 I note that there's been an indication 20 there are scheduled proceedings with respect to 21 other persons who are on your list for today, 22 but I'm not aware of any scheduled proceeding 23 as to Mr. Taylor. So that as Mr. Taylor is 24 deprived, if the suspension application is 25 granted, of the ability to continue to be 29 ITEM NO. 5 1 employed and earn a living and to support 2 himself, the State has taken no steps to move 3 this matter forward so that he can have his day 4 in court and demonstrate that, in fact, there's 5 no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he's 6 committed the infraction. 7 So I would ask that the Commission not 8 to take any action on the application for 9 suspension pending at least some indication 10 from the State as to when it is that Mr. Taylor 11 might have an opportunity to defend himself in 12 these matters. 13 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Biscieglia? 14 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 15 I would state first that the Division's 16 updates in these matter show that the State's 17 position on this matter is currently pending 18 grand jury with no date set. 19 I would also state that there's no doubt 20 that Mr. Shandellini entered the -- is 21 attempting in that statement to absolve himself 22 from a situation that he has found himself in, 23 as I would argue is probably 99 to a hundred 24 percent of the time the case with confidential 25 informants. Most people do not enter the 30 ITEM NO. 5 1 confidential informant program simply because 2 it's something that they want to do. It is 3 usually the result of a criminal charge against 4 them, and that is the police's way of using 5 somebody with knowledge. And deals are made, 6 obviously, to extract that knowledge. So I 7 would think that the -- just the blanket 8 statement of the distrust of Mr. Shandellini's 9 statement, I think should be looked at as the 10 way that any confidential informant's statement 11 is looked at. 12 Thank you. 13 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 14 Let me ask if there are any questions at 15 this point? 16 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: No questions 17 Madame Chair. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Epps, do 19 you have questions? 20 COMMISSIONER EPPS: I think I have a 21 question. 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Would you like to hear 23 from Mr. Powell first? 24 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Well, yeah. 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Powell? 31 ITEM NO. 5 1 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Do you have a reply 2 to that? 3 MR. POWELL: I do. 4 I don't know if the members of the 5 Commissioner have any involvement in the 6 criminal process, but it is not unusual for 7 confidential informants to be used by the 8 police in the course of an investigation. 9 There are all sorts of good reasons for why 10 that occurs. 11 If you take a look however, at Mr. 12 Shandellini's statement, if you have an 13 opportunity to read just the 10 or 15 pages, 14 you can see that Mr. Shandellini was not, in 15 fact, a confidential informant at the outset of 16 the investigation. In fact, what he was was 17 the target of the investigation. And he made 18 certain sales to the police officers as a 19 target of the investigation but once he was 20 arrested shifted blame from himself to Mr. 21 Taylor and one other individual who is named in 22 his -- in the taped-recorded statement which he 23 gave. So this is not the sort of situation 24 where police were using an informant to draw in 25 people who were involved in criminality. 32 ITEM NO. 5 1 Mr. Taylor wasn't drawn into criminality 2 by Mr. Shandellini at the request of Mr. 3 Police. Mr. Shandellini engaged in criminal 4 activity with state police officers, not 5 realizing that they were state police. And 6 once he was caught, put the blame off on Mr. 7 Taylor and one other individual. 8 So I would suggest that the argument 9 that confidential informants are commonly used, 10 and that, of course, they minimize at the time 11 they come into police doesn't really make any 12 sense here. Quite frankly, if you're a 13 confidential informant, you have no reason to 14 minimize. If you're working with the police, 15 and the police know what it is you're doing 16 because they're the persons who set the wheels 17 into motion to do what you do as an informant. 18 Mr. Shandellini wasn't in that situation 19 because he was simply a person who was selling 20 to the police without knowing they were police. 21 And once he was caught, he didn't like the idea 22 he was caught, and it made more sense to him to 23 blame it on someone else than take 24 responsibilities. 25 So I would for those reasons I think it 33 ITEM NO. 5 1 is not appropriate to presume that anything in 2 Mr. Shandellini's statement is anything other 3 than an attempt to avoid responsibility of his 4 own conduct and, certainly, is insufficient to 5 deprive Mr. Taylor of his license, his means of 6 supporting himself. 7 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Okay. I don't 8 really have a question, but I'll give you the 9 benefit of the difficulty that I have with this 10 case. And I'll give you an opportunity to 11 respond. 12 Here's what I see. We've got the casino 13 industry, and an employee in the casino 14 industry with a gaming license, which we've 15 said time and time again is a privilege, not a 16 right. And what we have here is a situation 17 that a drug transaction is occurring on casino 18 property. It's not even happening somewhere 19 remotely. It's happening on premises. And we 20 have information here that the police tend to 21 use in their normal course of business such 22 that they relied on this information to 23 effectuate an arrest that other people were 24 involved in this process, people who have these 25 gaming licenses. 34 ITEM NO. 5 1 That gives us pause. Those are the 2 situations by which even short of an indictment 3 sometimes we proceed to a suspension because we 4 need to have those situations removed from the 5 gaming environment because it sends a wrong 6 message to whoever looks at what we do here in 7 this environment. And we eradicate that from 8 our situation and allow it to go to the court 9 process. And if it is resolved, oftentimes 10 those who are exonerated come back through the 11 process and find their way back into their 12 normal course of business. 13 But a lot of times we don't step in the 14 place of law enforcement and their processes 15 and in matters where they use that in a normal 16 course or effectuate arrest. Oftentimes that 17 is -- is -- that passes the test for us, and so 18 that gets us to the level of suspension. At 19 least it removes the situation from the gaming 20 environment unless and until it is resolved. 21 So I need to hear from you how this is a 22 situation where we should not remove this 23 element from the gaming environment based on 24 the police's action up to this point. 25 MR. POWELL: Sure. I certainly 35 ITEM NO. 5 1 understand that there's a balance that has to 2 be struck between the rights of individuals 3 like Mr. Taylor and the desire and the mandate 4 of the Commission to make sure that criminality 5 is kept out of gaming. It's a significant 6 concern, and there's no question Mr. Taylor 7 understands it's a significant concern. And I 8 don't have any difficulty with the position 9 that you've just indicated is typically taken 10 by the Commission in circumstances where a 11 person is alleged to have been engaged in 12 criminality. Where it seems to me there is at 13 least some scintilla of reliable evidence that, 14 in fact, something of a criminal nature has 15 occurred. 16 I think this case is different because 17 you don't have that here. This is no different 18 than if there was a person in the bathroom in 19 the casino and smoking is prohibited in the 20 bathroom. He gets caught smoking and then says 21 the only reason I'm here smoking is because the 22 guy out there who is the dealer at the table 23 gives me a cigarette. Well, if the police saw 24 the guy at the table give you a cigarette, and 25 it's unlawful to give you a cigarette, then 36 ITEM NO. 5 1 certainly that's a basis to take action against 2 that dealer. Even if you can't be sure whether 3 that person who's in the bathroom who lit up 4 the cigarette actually got it from the guy. 5 But you have something other than that person's 6 word that you can rely to suggest that there's 7 some impropriety. 8 Here you don't have that. Here you have 9 an individual who is himself is involved in 10 criminality who simply puts it off on someone 11 else and absolutely nothing more than that, not 12 a criminal investigation that confirms 13 something he says, not another witness in the 14 world that confirms anything he says, not 15 another person in the casino who says he's ever 16 gotten anything from Mr. Taylor. Purely the 17 word of one guy who sold to police state and 18 got caught doing it. 19 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Here's my problem in 20 your scenario. I can't agree with your 21 hypothetical because it's different here. In 22 this scenario, at least as the police have 23 presented to us, there's a chain of illegal 24 activities that's continuous. In your scenario 25 there was a -- what might be a legal 37 ITEM NO. 5 1 transaction -- an illegal transaction. The 2 illegal transaction being smoking in the 3 bathroom. The only person doing something 4 illegal was the person smoking in the bathroom. 5 Giving someone a cigarette in that scenario is 6 not illegal. But passing drugs from one person 7 to another is illegal. Passing them from the 8 middle person to the police is also illegal. 9 And what we have in this scenario is a series 10 of illegal transactions. And the person in the 11 middle has allude -- I mean, alerted the police 12 to other people who have also committed illegal 13 activities. One of the those people also 14 happens to have a casino license. And as the 15 State has indicated, apparently there will be a 16 process moving forward to suspend the 17 credentials of the person -- the confidential 18 informant, also. So that person will be in a 19 suspended state as well. 20 What we're doing here is taking those 21 people who hold licenses who are alleged to 22 have engaged in illegal activity and removing 23 them from this environment unless and until 24 they can establish that they did not. So I'm 25 trying to understand how this is an 38 ITEM NO. 5 1 extraordinary step. 2 MR. POWELL: The only difficulty that I 3 have with that thought process is, doesn't it 4 fly in the face of presumption that people are 5 not guilty of a crime until they've been 6 convicted? Now, I know the standard here isn't 7 proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But certainly 8 if there's a presumption that Mr. Taylor has 9 not been engaged in criminality, how can it be 10 constitutionally -- and use the term broadly. 11 How can it be appropriate to impose a penalty 12 where there's no evidence as yet there's been 13 an infraction. Because so far there's no 14 evidence that Mr. Taylor has done anything 15 which is in any way violative of the 16 restrictions which are placed on any person who 17 has a gaming license? 18 The only thing which is before the 19 Commission at this point is the representations 20 of an individual who was caught red-handed 21 involved in criminality who put the blame off 22 on someone else. And it seems to me that in 23 the face of nothing more than that 24 representation. 25 You know, suppose the guy who deals 39 ITEM NO. 5 1 poker next to Mr. Taylor comes in next week and 2 says that Mr. Taylor is a child molester. I 3 haven't even him molesting any kids, but I 4 heard about it. Other guys around him said 5 something about around it. Does his license 6 get suspended? Child molestation is a crime as 7 well. There's no physical evidence in this 8 case. There's nothing that differentiates this 9 case from any other nasty, dirty rumor that 10 might be raised by any person in the casino. 11 COMMISSIONER EPPS: I guess the 12 difference is the police authority. And that's 13 where this matter turns, it seems to me, that 14 there was at least enough information to give 15 law enforcement the impetus to effectuate an 16 arrest. So that -- the fact that law 17 enforcement -- and it's not us. It is not up 18 to us to stand in the way of law enforcement 19 and say they did or didn't do their job 20 properly. And that, you know, if you're able 21 to flesh out later, then that changes the 22 circumstances. Maybe. But law enforcement at 23 least had enough confidential in what they had 24 to move forward and to start the wheels of the 25 legal process in motion based on that 40 ITEM NO. 5 1 information. And so that's what really gets us 2 in the situation that we're in. 3 MR. POWELL: I guess the question is 4 whether or not this is Commission is bound by 5 the determination that's made by police. The 6 police have made something of a threshold 7 determination, that they believe they have 8 probable cause to make an arrest. Which is a 9 very, very minimal standard. They only have to 10 have a reasonable belief that some type of 11 criminality has been involved in. 12 The source of their belief is, again, 13 Mr. Shandellini. No matter how you analyze 14 this case, it still comes back to the 15 representations of one individual. Whether 16 they are relied upon by police reasonably or 17 otherwise, they've been relied upon by police. 18 But the question is whether or not Mr. Taylor 19 should lose his license, whether it be 20 temporarily or otherwise, based solely on the 21 representation of another individual who's been 22 involved in criminality when there is 23 absolutely nothing which confirms anything that 24 he says. 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Biscieglia? 41 ITEM NO. 5 1 MR. BISCIEGLIA: May I respond? 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sure. 3 MR. BISCIEGLIA: Thank you. 4 First of all, I'd like to say Sections 5 129, 1 and 3 of the Act clearly set forth for 6 the standard of suspension in a matter such as 7 this. The evidence exists to the point that 8 the police have moved to filing criminal 9 charges, and this matter is pending a grand 10 jury. 11 And also I would take issue with the 12 characterization of Mr. Shandellini's 13 statements as trying to shift the blame to 14 somebody else. Mr. Shandellini was -- on three 15 separate occasions sold narcotics to an 16 undercover police officer. There is no putting 17 the blame on another person for those actions. 18 He -- he is not making the assertion that it 19 was not him; it was Mr. Taylor selling those 20 drugs to an undercover officer. What he is 21 doing is -- he is accepting his part in the 22 police -- in the police investigation's role of 23 this is how drug cases are prosecuted. You 24 start with the person who is apprehended, and 25 you try to work your way up the chain of 42 ITEM NO. 5 1 distribution. So I would take issue of the 2 shifting-the-blame thing. 3 Mr. Shandellini, if you read that 4 statement, he knows he's in for some trouble. 5 He's simply trying to mitigate some of the 6 damages. And this is the way that we know that 7 these investigations are conducted. 8 Thank you. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Fedorko? 10 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Madame Chair, I 11 think -- this is, obviously, something that's 12 going to have to be resolved in a court. And 13 likewise with our issue, I think it's something 14 that's going to have to be resolved at a 15 hearing that we're going to have. So I'm going 16 to make a motion to suspend credentials. 17 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 19 made and seconded. All in favor? 20 (Ayes.) 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 22 (No response.) 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. POWELL: Thank you. 43 ITEM NO. 6-8 1 MR. NANCE: Item No. 6 has been 2 adjourned. 3 And Item No. 7 has been adjourned. 4 Item No. 8, adoption of amplifying 5 statement in petition of Highgate Steel for 6 release of monies. 7 Mr. Ingis? 8 MR. INGIS: Good morning, Madame Chair, 9 Commissioners. 10 I notified counsel in this matter that 11 their appearance was not required given the 12 nature of the action to be considered by the 13 Commission. 14 Highgate Steel has appealed from a 15 Commission order pursuant to Appellate Division 16 regulations. The Commission has before it a 17 proposed amplifying statement. If adopted, it 18 will be filed with the Court tomorrow. 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 20 Any questions? 21 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 22 Madame Chair. 23 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Motion to adopt 24 the Commission amplifying statement to be filed 25 with the Appellate Division. 44 ITEM NO. 9 1 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 3 made and seconded. All in favor? 4 (Ayes.) 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 6 (No response.) 7 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 8 MR. NANCE: Item No. 9, application of 9 the Conservator and Trustee for the former 10 casino licensee, Adamar of New Jersey, Inc., 11 for approval of fees for the law firm 12 consultants Debevoise & Plimpton, LLC, for the 13 period of January through March. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 15 MR. NANCE: Mr. DiGiacomo? 16 MR. DiGIACOMO: Chair, Commissioners, 17 good morning. 18 Sean Mack on behalf of Justice Stein and 19 Miss Mary Jo Flaherty on behalf of the Division 20 of Gaming Enforcement. 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 22 Retired Justice Gary Stein seeks 23 approval for the legal invoices that his 24 attorneys, Debevoise & Plimpton, submitted for 25 their services and expenses of the first three 45 ITEM NO. 9 1 months of this year in connection with the sale 2 of the former casino licensee Adamar of New 3 Jersey, Inc. 4 The Division recommends that the matter 5 be adjourned for 60 days so as to better gauge 6 Adamar's ability to meet its projections during 7 this very important summer season. 8 Mr. Mack, would you please proceed? 9 MR. MACK: Good morning, Chair, 10 Commissioners. 11 As the Commission knows, I typically 12 come here seeking approval of the Conservator's 13 fees and expenses and those of his consultants 14 and myself. But particularly in light of the 15 Division's letter and the amount of invoices 16 we're seeking approval for, I thought it 17 appropriate to bring with me today attorneys 18 from Debevoise so it can hear the concerns the 19 Commission may have and respond to any of those 20 concerns directly. 21 With me today are Richard Hahn and 22 Michael Blair from Debevoise, and they are 23 available to respond to any issues the 24 Commission may have. 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 46 ITEM NO. 9 1 Let me ask what -- you want to continue 2 with the argument and then we'll -- 3 MR. MACK: A couple of preliminary 4 issues. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sure. Absolutely. 6 MR. MACK: We submitted a letter to the 7 Commission yesterday asking that the letter 8 submitted to the Division and our response to 9 that letter be sealed because of the highly 10 sensitive and confidential financial 11 forecasting information that those letters both 12 contained. And I just wanted to take this 13 opportunity to get clarification and 14 confirmation that that request to seal the 15 records has been approved. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: I think let -- let's 17 hear from the Division with respect to the 18 sealing issue. 19 MS. FLAHERTY: Yes, Chair. 20 With regards to sealing, obviously, it's 21 a balancing test under the Nigris decision as 22 to the interest of the public and the right to 23 know and the need to keep the information 24 confidential. If it goes to the key issue 25 involved, and it's the subject of argument, 47 ITEM NO. 9 1 obviously, it would have to be made public. 2 Otherwise under Section 74 of the Act, it would 3 remain confidential. But in that it may become 4 germane to the argument that part of the 5 information would need to become public, in our 6 view. 7 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 8 Let me ask if there are any questions. 9 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 10 Madame Chair. 11 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: No. 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. You know, I 13 believe -- and let me rely on counsel with 14 respect the -- some of the forecasting 15 information which I think, given the pendency 16 of what is going on, would need to be 17 confidential, but I don't believe any of the 18 other matters would be? 19 Mr. DiGiacomo? 20 MR. DiGIACOMO: In part, Chair, as Miss 21 Flaherty indicated, under Nigris the balancing 22 test the Commission would have to employ 23 depends upon what the basis of the Commission 24 decision is, and if it's going to turn on that 25 matter -- 48 ITEM NO. 9 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Uh-huh. 2 MR. DiGIACOMO: -- then I think the 3 balance favors public disclosure at that point. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Public disclosure. 5 Okay. I would agree. 6 I do need to take a motion? 7 MS. FAUNTLEROY: Under advisement. Wait 8 until it's done. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. We'll do that. 10 Mr. Mack, you want to continue? 11 MR. MACK: I guess the next issue I'd 12 like to address is -- is the request for the 13 adjournment by the Division. We submitted our 14 letter to the Commission last night. I hope 15 you've had an opportunity to review it. As we 16 set forth in that letter, we think most of the 17 issues raised by the Division, even though I 18 responded to them in detail in that letter, we 19 think are largely irrelevant to today's 20 proceeding. 21 The Division requested that the April 22 30th conference -- hearing on this petition, 23 that it be adjourned so that they could further 24 review Debevoise's invoices. In their letter 25 they've acknowledged that they have taken that 49 ITEM NO. 9 1 time. They have completed their review of 2 Debevoise's invoices. The letter doesn't 3 identify any fees that they believe are 4 excessive, although any particular fees that 5 they think should be disallowed. 6 We don't see that there's any basis on 7 which to, therefore, grant their request to 8 again adjourn this hearing. The Division has 9 completed its review and has submitted its 10 thoughts to the Commission. 11 The legislature in enacting the 12 conservatorship provisions, the relevant ones 13 here, recognize that for a conservator to 14 fulfill his obligations, fill the mandate he's 15 given must be have the ability to rely on 16 competent and other professionals. Given the 17 precarious situation in which a conservatorship 18 would likely be instituted, the legislature 19 also recognized that in order for those 20 professionals to feel comfortable in providing 21 those services, they would have to be provided 22 with some certainty that they would be 23 compensated for those services. And to 24 effectuate that legislative purpose, they 25 enacted Subsection 130.3 of the Casino Control 50 ITEM NO. 9 1 Act which gives priority to fees like those of 2 Debevoise above and beyond all other debts or 3 obligations of the former licensee whether, or 4 not those obligations are secure or unsecured. 5 What the Division is requesting is 6 inconsistent with that statutory scheme. By 7 requesting that these -- the application to 8 approve these fees be delayed for another 60 9 days, the Division is instituting back into 10 this process precisely that uncertainty that 11 the legislators specifically are trying to 12 avoid by enacting Section 130.3. the 13 implication I take from the Division's letter 14 is that they think this needs to be adjourned 15 so that we can see how events unfold over the 16 next few months, see how, you know, the 17 uncontrollable events that may occur in the 18 Tropicana Entertainment bankruptcy in terms of 19 debt service obligations, that may come due, 20 how those may impact the ability of the casino 21 to pay these obligations. That's reversing of 22 the order and the priority. The legislature 23 has made clear these invoices take priority 24 over those other obligations, and there's no 25 reason to wait another 60 days to see what may 51 ITEM NO. 9 1 occur when there's the obligation under the 2 statute to pay those invoices once they're 3 approved by the Commission. And we would, 4 therefore, request that the Commission hear 5 this today and approve Debevoise's invoices. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Miss Flaherty? 7 MS. FLAHERTY: Yes, Chair and 8 Commissioners. 9 We submitted our report because the 10 invoices relate to rather large amounts of 11 money, and we thought that it was appropriate 12 for the Commission to consider that not in a 13 vacuum. Our interests remain the ongoing 14 operation of the Tropicana Atlantic City 15 facility. In our view, the Tropicana is at a 16 crossroads situation and some difficult 17 decisions may need to be made at this point in 18 time. In our view, it would be appropriate to 19 determine a definitive course in which to 20 proceed. 21 In light of that, we think that this is 22 a good point to regroup, to look at these 23 matters, to look at the consultants, to look at 24 these fee issues, and to see where we want to 25 go from here. 52 ITEM NO. 9 1 I note that we have the billings from 2 January to March, but we don't have the 3 billings for April and May. And there have 4 been some discussions as to the potential other 5 consultant arrangements in the recent days. In 6 light of all that, we thought that it was 7 appropriate to take some more time to look at 8 all these issues in a united fashion and to 9 come to a conclusion. 10 And we realize that there are fees. We 11 realize that they will have to be paid to some 12 extent as determined by the Commission. But we 13 thought it was appropriate to look at this in 14 overall fashion, and that is our recommendation 15 to you with, as well, some background and other 16 points and thoughts that we thought were 17 appropriate to make. And in light of that, we 18 submit our position to you. 19 Thank you. 20 MR. MACK: If I could briefly, Chair. 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sure. 22 MR. MACK: Just to correct. We had 23 submitted on April 22nd the Debevoise's 24 invoices through April 20th. I understand 25 there was some mis -- some misfiling or 53 ITEM NO. 9 1 something. So the Commission does have those 2 as well as my firm's and other consultants' 3 invoices through April 20th, and we're still in 4 May. And we're still in May and we'll get 5 those invoices in. 6 To some extent I agree with Miss 7 Flaherty that we're going to be before the 8 Commission on June 4th to talk about the 9 process going forward. But that has nothing to 10 do with the fees and expenses that have been 11 occurred to date. So long as they've been 12 approved by the Commission, the statute 13 requires that they be paid. And Debevoise, as 14 the Chair received an ear full from Justice 15 Stein yesterday, about the high quality of 16 services that Debevoise has provided, and 17 absolutely critical advice they've been giving 18 to him for past many months. They've been 19 working four and a half months without 20 compensation. They have a retainer agreement 21 that authorizes them to be paid on a monthly 22 basis, and it's time to pay them some money. 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Let me ask if the 24 Commissioners have some questions. 25 And, obviously, part of the issue with 54 ITEM NO. 9 1 respect to this is the amount. I spent most of 2 last night going through the invoices. I do 3 have some concern, I have to tell you, about 4 some of the things that were billed. My 5 understanding -- and, obviously, this 6 commission approved Justice Stein retaining the 7 firm, albeit I had a lot of concerns when that 8 occurred, just because of the amount of money 9 involved. And we're dealing with, you know, 10 casino property that has been functioning on 11 its own, and I think functioning pretty well 12 given the circumstances in the market right 13 now. But it still gives me pause. 14 And, I guess -- you know, my first 15 concern about some of the issues are some of 16 the things that were billed. And I don't know 17 if any of the other Commissioners want to ask 18 some questions, but I have some concerns with 19 respect to that. So I'd like to get some of 20 those questions now and maybe either answered, 21 or if they need to be deferred, but at least 22 put them on the record because of the amounts. 23 You know, my first concern, obviously, 24 was I saw some duplication between what Pashman 25 Stein was doing on behalf of the Conservator 55 ITEM NO. 9 1 and what Debevoise & Plimpton was doing. I 2 saw, for example, that -- that you -- that 3 employee retention agreements were dealt with, 4 for example. And that Pashman Stein dealt with 5 them, and then they were reviewed. And I have 6 a great deal of concern about the duplication 7 of services. Because my understanding from the 8 Justice was that Debevoise & Plimpton was to 9 provide merger and acquisition services. So 10 these things sort of went beyond what I thought 11 was their role in this function, and I think 12 helped to drive up the bills. 13 Can you respond to that issue? 14 MR. MACK: On that particular issue, 15 it's fairly simple. Sam Samara from my office 16 is an employment lawyer, so he prepared the 17 retention agreements. Given the context we're 18 in at a time that these retention agreements 19 came up, there was the issues to deal with in 20 terms of how those retention agreements might 21 be treated in connection with the sale process, 22 what a prospective purchaser might want to know 23 about or have to be disclosed about those, 24 potential impact of the Tropicana bankruptcy 25 filing. The viability of those retention 56 ITEM NO. 9 1 agreements, and the terms in those in terms of 2 bankruptcy issues. My firm doesn't have that 3 sort of expertise, so we turned to Debevoise & 4 Plimpton for that because that is what we hired 5 them to advice Justice Stein on, is the impact 6 of these complex legal issues in terms of the 7 sale process and with Richard's restructuring 8 and bankruptcy issues. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Can you see that, to 10 me, is double billing. I mean, I understand 11 your argument. But -- but, then, perhaps you 12 could have gone to them directly rather than 13 having your firm do it as well. You know? I 14 mean, we have -- and, as you know, we have 15 authority under the Act to go through and look 16 at these bills and reduce them where 17 appropriate so. 18 MR. MACK: And I don't question with 19 that fundamental premises, and that's the 20 obligation here. 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Uh-hum. 22 MR. MACK: I do not see there are any 23 double billings here. Mr. Samara drafted the 24 terms of the agreement and sent it to Debevoise 25 for their comment to address those sorts of 57 ITEM NO. 9 1 issues that I've discussed. Debevoise wasn't-- 2 weren't both drafting the same agreement. I'm 3 sure you have experience in the papers you put 4 out. Somebody drafts it. Other people review 5 it and comment on it. That's all that happened 6 here. 7 CHAIR KASSEKERT: But we're public 8 employees, Mr. Mack. 9 (Laughter.) 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: It's a very different 11 scenario. 12 Mr. Hahn? 13 MR. HAHN: Perhaps I could be of a 14 little assistance on this point. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sure. 16 MR. HAHN: I should say my 25 years of 17 doing corporate and restructuring work that 18 this is perhaps among the most complicated 19 asset sale situation I've run across, and I 20 suspect not comparable to anything that has 21 occurred in New Jersey before that the 22 Commission has dealt with because of the 23 bankruptcy of the parent company. 24 MR. DiGIACOMO: Excuse me, Chair. I 25 don't mean to intrude on Mr. Hahn's statement, 58 ITEM NO. 9 1 but I just -- if he's advocating on behalf 2 of -- 3 MR. NANCE: Excuse me, Mr. DiGiacomo? 4 May I ask you a question? Are you a New 5 Jersey attorney? 6 MR. HAHN: No. I'm not. I'm a member 7 of the New York bar. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Correct. We need to 9 swear him in. 10 MR. DiGIACOMO: Yeah. 11 12 RICHARD HAHN, was duly sworn to testify 13 in this matter. 14 15 MR. NANCE: Please state your name for 16 the record. 17 MR. HAHN: Richard Hahn. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sorry. You know, we 19 have very high standards for pro hac vice here. 20 MR. HAHN: I appreciate that. 21 Because of the pending bankruptcy 22 apparent, there are now multiple constituencies 23 who have an interest and, frankly, have some 24 ability to affect the sale process here. There 25 are two large creditor groups recently now 59 ITEM NO. 9 1 formed, a creditors committee in the parent 2 bankruptcy. There's the parent itself. All of 3 them are involved in a multi-lateral process. 4 They all-- and their rights and obligations 5 here raise different legal issues. For better 6 or worse, many of the tasks that confront 7 Justice Stein are multifaceted as a result. 8 There may be a principal undertaking, like the 9 drafting of the retention agreements, but must 10 none the less be analyzed from a variety of 11 other perspectives, how will the parent 12 bankruptcy affect them? And how will the 13 creditors and the parent and Adamar react to 14 them? How will the potential buyers see the 15 sale process? That doesn't involve the 16 duplication of the effort. 17 We're not doing the same thing that 18 Pashman Stein is doing because they are working 19 cooperatively on the same project with the 20 different pieces of advice that Justice Stein 21 needs to accomplish what the statute and the 22 Commission want him to do. 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: And I guess your 24 response would be the same. Another area that 25 I saw in the bill that I was very concerned 60 ITEM NO. 9 1 about, and I know Mr. Mack knows of that 2 concern because I expressed, was the issue with 3 respect to the Delaware litigation and the 4 recent bankruptcy petition that the Justice 5 filed here. I was very concerned to see 6 billings there as a result. 7 MR. HAHN: Perhaps I can explain that as 8 well. I think that's another example of the 9 phenomena Mr. Mack and I were just describing. 10 We did not draft the papers. We did not, 11 needless to say, give advice on the New Jersey 12 or the Casino Control Act elements of it. What 13 was an important element of Justice Stein's 14 consideration of how to proceed and the 15 argument presented in the papers was what the 16 consequence for Adamar and the sale process 17 might be of a default under the public notes. 18 And we were called upon to provide an analysis 19 of that, including the prediction that there 20 would bankruptcy of the parent company, and 21 that might have an impact on the sale process. 22 Again, in an area what we were doing was 23 important to Justice Stein's determination of 24 how best to proceed, but we were not 25 duplicating what Pashman Stein was doing. 61 ITEM NO. 9 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. Let me ask if 2 Commissioners have any questions? 3 Commissioner Fedorko? 4 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: I do. 5 Mr. Mack, there's a bill on here or 6 charge on here for word processing and other 7 document preparation. Could you explain that 8 to me, how that works? 9 MR. MACK: If I could ask either Richard 10 or Mike to address that. That was set forth in 11 their engagement letter as well. 12 MS. HAHN: Yeah, Your Honor. 13 When we set our rates, we recognized the 14 fact that many of our clients use ancillary 15 services in a disproportionate way. Some use a 16 lot of word processing. Some use very little. 17 So it makes sense, and it's fairer to our 18 clients to charge them for the specific usage 19 as opposed to building it into our hourly rates 20 so that everyone bears a potentially 21 disproportionate share of the burden. 22 So as a client's -- as client services 23 require us to produce documentation, in this 24 case drafts of the purchase agreement pursuant 25 to which the casino would be sold, which is a 62 ITEM NO. 9 1 lengthy document exceeding hundreds of pages or 2 more, that document is produced by a word 3 processing department. And the time involved 4 in doing that and producing the various 5 iterations of it is billed to the particular 6 client that uses the time. 7 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: But how -- how do 8 you arrive at that figure? I mean, I 9 understand what you just said, but is it based 10 strictly on time or is it how many pages you 11 have to deal with? 12 MR. HAHN: My understanding is the word 13 processing operator is billed on an hourly 14 basis, and there's a charge that we add for 15 each hour that they spend on the project. 16 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Do you know what 17 the hourly charge is? 18 MR. HAHN: I'm afraid offhand I don't, 19 Your Honor. 20 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Okay. Thank you. 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Commissioner Epps? 22 COMMISSIONER EPPS: I have a different 23 question. And excuse my ignorance if it shows, 24 but I think that we have an interest -- or we 25 have as one of our interests the viability of 63 ITEM NO. 9 1 Tropicana. And my question is -- like for 2 Pashman Stein there was a January bill, and 3 there was a February bill and there was -- why 4 wasn't there a January bill for Debevoise, and 5 then a February bill for Debevoise, which may 6 have eased burden on Tropicana a little bit 7 than hit them over the head in March with the 8 big number? Is there a reason why that didn't 9 happen? 10 MR. MACK: I'll address this in part 11 this way: Justice Stein asked several of the 12 consultants that have been approved for 13 retention to defer receiving compensation until 14 sale. I'm sure the Commission will recall 15 shortly after the license was denied in 16 December -- I mean, the financial situation at 17 the casino was critical, and we were doing 18 everything we can to defer expenses, make some 19 requests to the Commission to defer fines and 20 other things that were supposedly due in 21 January. Along the same lines, we asked 22 Debevoise if we could defer paying them for 23 some period of time and they agreed to do that 24 and not demand payment on the beginning of 25 February for their bills in January. It was an 64 ITEM NO. 9 1 accommodation to the casino to allow it to get 2 itself back on track. 3 COMMISSIONER EPPS: And I -- okay. I 4 understand that, and I appreciate that. But 5 doesn't -- doesn't it become now 6 counterintuitive to delay payment over time, 7 but then seek the entire sum at one time? I 8 mean, if we're going to delay payment, why 9 aren't we here seeking now to pay January? And 10 maybe next month, we'll pay February if we're 11 going to -- if the issue is that Debevoise has 12 not been paid, and they're entitled to some 13 compensation for quantum merit work done, how 14 about if we break it out per month to ease the 15 burden on Tropicana financially as well? I 16 mean, if we're going to make some payments, 17 maybe we could make them incrementally as well. 18 MR. MACK: I think Debevoise's in their 19 engagement requested a month -- to be paid 20 monthly. They made an accommodation to us. 21 The casino's on sound financial footing. It 22 has the ability to make these payments now. 23 And my expectation would be, going forward, as 24 with other invoices, they'll be submitted on a 25 monthly basis. They have the approval already 65 ITEM NO. 9 1 of the Commission to be received on a monthly 2 base. They did us the favor of not demanding 3 that previously with their -- 4 The casino can pay it. And they're 5 entitled to have the certainty, especially with 6 the parent bankruptcy hanging over the head of 7 this whole process, that they're going to be 8 paid for the services they have rendered. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: I guess another 10 concern I have when I looked at the bills, you 11 know, there are charges for research regarding 12 gaming law in here. You know, we got experts 13 right here in this building on gaming law. I 14 mean, people that have been here since the Act 15 was signed. You know, why wasn't there any -- 16 you know, pick up the phone and call? I mean, 17 Justice Stein is our conservator. You know, he 18 could rely on the Division and both the 19 Commission staff with respect to any kind of 20 interpretation of the Act. Why was that not 21 done? 22 MR. MACK: It may have been Dianna who 23 passed on that comment to me a little while 24 ago. We'll certainly take the Commission up on 25 that event, on those resources going forward. 66 ITEM NO. 9 1 There were -- there have been a number of 2 issues that have come up, and I'm not exactly 3 sure which issue particular research in the 4 invoice that you're thinking of. But the 5 reason it was done -- and Richard will, I'm 6 sure, supplement this to some extent -- is that 7 in order to provide us -- to understand the 8 situation Justice Stein was facing and provide 9 advice, they needed to look into the Casino 10 Control Act. 11 MR. HAHN: I think the word "research" 12 may appear in the time charts. I think it 13 probably a bit of a misnomer. I believe most, 14 if not all, of the time involved was myself and 15 other senior lawyers at Debevoise familiarizing 16 ourselves generally with what the Casino 17 Control Act said. Not doing research on 18 specific issues. As a lawyer giving advice on 19 corporate and restructuring issues, I really 20 needed to understand the general parameters of 21 the Act in order to intelligently advise 22 Justice Stein. I'm not going to research a 23 specific issue. On those I actually do call 24 Sean and ask him to undertake research or to 25 tell me his thoughts on that. But I have to 67 ITEM NO. 9 1 know what's in the Act even to know what the 2 right questions to ask are. So I've read the 3 statute and charged for that time. 4 I think my colleague Mr. Blair has 5 probably done the same and probably one or two 6 other people at Debevoise who have as well. 7 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Any other questions? 8 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Well, I mean, I 9 guess part of my question was answered by Mr. 10 Mack. And some of my reluctance here at going 11 further relates to Mr. Mack's original request 12 for sealing. I'm kind of hesitant to go places 13 where you don't want to go because if we then 14 go there, your sealing is destroyed. So I'm 15 kind of -- you've got me in a bind. I'm stuck. 16 There are -- there is some clarity that I need 17 to seek, and I think the Division has alluded 18 to it. There's some clarity that we need to 19 get, for us, to give us a comfort level. 20 You've made reference to some of it. 21 That I think is what the Division wants 22 to flesh out further and give us a comfort 23 level that some of the representations that 24 you've made are, in fact, accurate and these 25 things can happen. But I'm reluctant to go 68 ITEM NO. 9 1 further, because you've indicated that you 2 don't necessarily want to go down that road. 3 And I'm trying to be respectful to you, but 4 I -- we can't play it both ways. I think 5 that-- I'm inclined to suggest, respectfully, 6 that we carry this matter to the June 4th 7 meeting where all of these things -- and 8 Tropicana is going to be the tantamount item on 9 the agenda. I think that this item, at least 10 this chunk of the item, can be resolved at that 11 time. But there is some background question 12 that we need to give us a comfort level to move 13 that item off the agenda as we move a bunch of 14 items on that day. 15 I'm reasonably comfortable that at that 16 time this item can be addressed and moved, but 17 there is some clarity that we need going 18 forward that -- to make that happen. 19 So if I'm not out of order, Chair, I 20 would move that we carry this item until the 21 June 4th hearing. 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Let me just ask Miss 23 Flaherty, is there anything you'd like to add 24 with respect to what Commissioner Epps just 25 said? 69 ITEM NO. 9 1 MS. FLAHERTY: Well, I would agree with 2 Commissioner Epps. I think that's a wise and 3 prudent course. I think it's a big amount to 4 pay at once. I think that the other point that 5 he made is well taken in terms of seeing how 6 that would affect Tropicana. I know they have 7 payments with regard to real estate and other 8 slot fees that are coming up in the, you know, 9 recent past and the very near future. And, you 10 know, it may just be an issue right now. 11 So I think that that's well to consider 12 and to take into account. I think that that 13 would be a wise way to go. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Mack? 15 MS. FLAHERTY: And I'm think -- 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Oh, I'm sorry. 17 MS. FLAHERTY: I'm sorry. 18 Potentially going forward, I think maybe 19 things that we may consider are having a 20 preapproved amount or range per month for his 21 consultants, and if they think they're going to 22 surpass that for any previously unknown or 23 emergent matter, maybe if, you know, authority 24 can be delegated to the Chair for that to be 25 brought to her immediate attention so that 70 ITEM NO. 9 1 things don't proceed on a course, and later on 2 they're brought to our knowledge, you know, 3 might be more helpful as well. 4 Thank you. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 6 Mr. Mack? Anything you wish to add? 7 MR. MACK: Chair, or Commissioner Epps, 8 if one of the main concerns you have in terms 9 of these stumbling blocks to get through, does 10 it relate to the interest payments and the 11 accrual for that? Because I think that would 12 be something we would be willing to discuss 13 today publicly. If that's the main issue. If 14 it's other issues, then I think we would accept 15 the invitation. 16 COMMISSIONER EPPS: It relates to other 17 issues in your letter. To some of the issues 18 that you didn't -- going out further than -- 19 for the rest, balance of the year that you 20 didn't necessarily want to entertain. 21 MR. MACK: Okay. So it's not just the 22 interest payment on the parent's debt? 23 COMMISSIONER EPPS: No. 24 MR. MACK: Okay. So then the other 25 issues that you are apparently concerned with, 71 ITEM NO. 9 1 we would prefer to -- we'll discuss with the 2 Division. We'll meet with staff. We're happy 3 to address and provide any information that the 4 Commission desires. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 6 Can you put that in the formal -- 7 COMMISSIONER EPPS: I put -- make a 8 motion. 9 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Seconded. 11 Motion is made and seconded to adjourn 12 this, schedule this for the June 4th public 13 meeting. I think that's our next public 14 meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Yes. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: All those in favor? 17 (Ayes.) 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 21 Let me just say on the record, though, 22 you know, as we go forward, I am very, very 23 concerned about the amounts of money here. And 24 I think Miss Flaherty's suggestion is a good 25 one. So I think that that's perhaps something 72 ITEM NO. 10 1 we should move forward with and do. Because 2 the last thing I want to see happen in this 3 process is to see this casino take an adverse 4 hit. And I think my other Commissioners share 5 that -- that with me. We want to, you know -- 6 and I know things are getting better down there 7 in terms of some of the numbers, but we want to 8 see them thrive, and we want to sell. And I 9 think that's the Justice's interest as well in 10 selling a property that is healthy and robust. 11 Thank you. 12 MS. FLAHERTY: Thank you, Chair, 13 Commissioners. 14 MR. MACK: Thank you. 15 MR. NANCE: Item No. 10, petition of MAC 16 Corporation for William Hornbuckle to perform 17 the duties and exercise the responsibilities of 18 President and Chief Operating Officer pending 19 qualification. 20 Miss Frank? 21 MS. FRANK: Good morning, Chair and 22 Commissioners. 23 A draft resolution on Mr. Hornbuckle's 24 temporary qualification has been circulated to 25 the parties. 73 ITEM NO. 10 1 Nick Casiello is here for MAC Corp. and 2 Jim Fogarty from the Division. 3 MR. CASIELLO: Good mortgage, Chair, 4 Commissioners. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Good morning, Mr. 6 Casiello. 7 MR. CASIELLO: I have reviewed that 8 draft resolution, and it is acceptable in form 9 and substance. 10 As you know, this is a petition for the 11 temporary qualification of William Hornbuckle 12 as president and COO of MAC Corp. Bill has 13 been designated one of the executives of the 14 company responsible for the MGM MIRAGE casino 15 development project proposed on Renaissance 16 Point. 17 Thank you. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 19 Mr. Fogarty? 20 MR. FOGARTY: Yes. Good morning. 21 By letter dated May 5 we did not oppose 22 the request for Mr. Hornbuckle to be 23 temporarily qualified. 24 And I've seen the draft resolution, and 25 have no objection to its entry. 74 ITEM NO. 10 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 2 Any questions? 3 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: No questions, 4 Madame Chair. 5 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Motion to adopt 6 the draft resolution and authorize William 7 Hornbuckle on a temporary basis prior to his 8 plenary qualification to assume the duties and 9 exercise the powers of President and Chief 10 Operating Officer of MAC Corp. subject to the 11 conditions contained in NJAC 19:43-2.7 which, 12 among other things, require that he file a 13 personal history disclosure form MJ and NJ 14 supplement by June 5th, 2008. 15 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion has been made 17 and seconded. This is a roll call vote. 18 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Frulio? 19 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Yes. 20 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Fedorko? 21 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Yes. 22 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Epps? 23 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Yes. 24 MR. NANCE: Vice Chair Sommeling? 25 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Yes. 75 ITEM NO. 11 1 MR. NANCE: Chair Kassekert? 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yes. 3 MR. NANCE: The record will reflect that 4 the motion is unanimous. 5 MR. CASIELLO: Thank you. 6 MS. FRANK: Thank you. 7 MR. FOGARTY: Thank you. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 9 MR. NANCE: Item No. 11, petition of 10 Trump Plaza Associates for an amendment to its 11 operation certificate to expand and reconfigure 12 its gaming floor. 13 MR. KELL: Good morning, Madame Chair, 14 and Commissioners. 15 MR. NANCE: Mr. Kell? 16 MR. KELL: Loretta Pickus is here on 17 behalf of the Petitioners. Tim Ficchi for the 18 Division. 19 And the staff has circulated a draft 20 resolution in this matter. 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Good morning, Miss 22 Pickus. 23 MS. PICKUS: Good morning, Chair and 24 Commissioners. 25 I would ask you to adopt the draft 76 ITEM NO. 11 1 resolution. And thank you all for 2 consideration today. 3 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 4 Mr. Ficchi? 5 MR. FICCHI: Good morning, Chair and 6 Commissioners. We have seen the draft 7 resolution and have no objection to its 8 adoption. 9 Thank you. 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 11 Any questions? 12 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Madame Chair, 13 move to adopt the draft resolution and approve 14 the petition of Trump Plaza Associates for an 15 amendment to its certificate of the operation 16 and permit the reconfiguration of its casino 17 floor subject to the conditions in the 18 resolution. 19 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 21 made and seconded. All in favor? 22 (Ayes.) 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 24 (No response.) 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 77 ITEM NO. 12 1 MS. PICKUS: Thank you. 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 3 MR. NANCE: Item No. 12, petition of 4 Bally's Park Place, Inc., for relief from 5 certain conditions from Resolution No. 6 02-25-19. 7 Mr. Kell? 8 MR. KELL: Madame Chair, Commissioners, 9 deputy Attorney Tim Ficchi is still here for 10 the Division, and Tim Lowry is here for the 11 Petitioners in this matter. 12 Once again, a draft resolution has been 13 circulated to the parties. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 15 Mr. Lowry, good morning. 16 MR. LOWRY: Thank you, Madame Chair, 17 Commissioners. 18 This petition just follows your approval 19 of the modification through Bally's operational 20 plan last hearing. 21 I just want to thank the Commission 22 staff and Division staff for their prompt 23 attention and assistance throughout this, 24 especially Miss Pheifer and Mr. Kell did a 25 fantastic job. Very helpful. 78 ITEM NO. 12 1 That being said, we've reviewed the 2 draft resolution and the conditions imposed 3 therein, and we have no objections. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 5 MR. LOWRY: And we ask you approve it. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Ficchi? 7 MR. FICCHI: Thank you, Chair. 8 The Division has no objection to the 9 adoption of the resolution. 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 11 Any questions? 12 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 13 Madame Chair. 14 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Motion to adopt 15 the draft resolution and grant the relief 16 requested in the petition subject to the 17 conditions in the resolution. 18 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 20 made and seconded. All in favor? 21 (Ayes.) 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 23 (No response.) 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 25 MR. LOWRY: Thank you. 79 ITEM NO. 13 1 MR. NANCE: Item No. 13, petition of 2 Diamond Gaming, LLC, and Trump Taj Mahal 3 Associates for approval of "Diamond Roulette" 4 pursuant to NJAC 19:47-8.4; and proposed 5 publication and temporary adoption of 6 amendments to NJAC 19:46-1.7 and 19:47-5.1. 7 Mr. Briliant? 8 MR. BRILIANT: Good morning, Madame 9 Chair and Commissioners. 10 Mr. Gullotta is here on behalf of 11 Diamond Gaming. Mr. Ficchi is here on behalf 12 of the Division. 13 And I did circulate a draft resolution 14 among the parties, and they've indicated it is 15 satisfactory to them. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 17 Mr. Gullotta? 18 MR. GULLOTTA: Good morning, Chair. 19 Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you for 20 your time. 21 I'm here to answer any questions you 22 might have with the game, and I don't know what 23 else to say. 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Are you an attorney? 25 MR. GULLOTTA: No. 80 ITEM NO. 13 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Another slip up. 2 Okay. 3 Well, we will -- well, your didn't 4 really provide any testimony, so if we have any 5 questions for you, we will swear you in. 6 Mr. Ficchi? 7 MR. FICCHI: Thank you, Chair. 8 The Division has no objection to the 9 petition and its adoption. 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 11 Any questions? 12 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 13 Madame Chair. 14 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Move to: A, rule 15 that Diamond Roulette is a variation of the 16 authorized game of roulette pursuant to NJSA 17 5:12-5 and NJAC 19:47-8.4; 18 B, authorize the publication of the 19 notice of proposal and notice of temporary 20 adoption, temporarily adopt the proposed 21 regulatory amendments which will permit Diamond 22 Roulette to be offered on the gaming floor for 23 up to 270 days; 24 And, C, condition any use of the new 25 game variation upon: 81 ITEM NO. 14 1 One, the filing with and approval by the 2 Division of Compliance of all necessary 3 internal control submissions; 4 And, two, the issuance of a CSI license 5 or any necessary transactional waivers to 6 Diamond Gaming, LLC. 7 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 9 made and seconded. All in favor? 10 (Ayes.) 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 12 (No response.) 13 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 14 Thank you. 15 MR. GULLOTTA: Thank you very much. 16 MR. BRILIANT: Thank you. 17 MR. NANCE: Item No. 14, reproposed 18 publication of amendment to NJAC 19:45-1.33. 19 Mr. Mamolen? 20 MR. MAMOLEN: Good morning, Madame 21 Chair, Commissioners. 22 This matter is before you for test of 23 republication. It is not necessary to 24 temporarily readopt this because there's an 25 existing time on the original adoption. 82 ITEM NO. 15 1 This matter serves to clarify that the 2 Casino Accounting Department and not the Casino 3 Games Department has the primary responsibility 4 for investigating and reporting on negative 5 poker revenue that appears on the master gaming 6 report. 7 Again, it's for publication only. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 9 Any questions? 10 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Move to approve for 11 reproposed amendment. 12 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 15 made and seconded. All in favor? 16 (Ayes.) 17 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 18 (No response.) 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 20 MR. NANCE: Item No. 15, proposed 21 publication and temporary adoption of amendment 22 to NJAC 19:45-1.18. 23 Mr. Mamolen? 24 MR. MAMOLEN: This matter is before you 25 for both publication and temporary adoption, 83 ITEM NO. 16 1 and it would enable either the random sampling 2 of decks in the games of baccarat and 3 mini-baccarat or else an inspection of the 4 cards pursuant to an approved stratification 5 plan. Casino licensees will also be able to 6 continue to inspect every single deck of cards 7 used in those games if they so choose. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 9 Any questions? 10 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 11 Madame Chair. 12 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Motion to approve 13 for publication and temporary adoption. 14 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 16 made and seconded. All in favor? 17 (Ayes.) 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 21 MR. NANCE: Item No. 16, proposed 22 publication and temporary adoption of 23 amendments for optional bonus wagers in Asia 24 Poker and authorization of rulemaking 25 experiment for optional bonus pair wagers in 84 ITEM NO. 16 1 Asia Poker pursuant to NJSA 5:12-69e. 2 Mr. Mamolen? 3 MR. MAMOLEN: This is before you for 4 publication and temporary adoption of new 5 supplemental wagers in the game of Asia Poker 6 which heretofore has not featured any 7 supplemental wagers. 8 The two new supplemental wagers are the 9 Dynasty Poker wager, and that is basically 10 standard side wager on the value of all seven 11 cards, and the payouts of high valued hands. 12 And the other one is the win-all three 13 wager which is, in essence, a player has to win 14 all three of the hands against the dealer, that 15 being the high, medium, and low hands with a 16 payout odds for that wager six to one. 17 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 18 Any questions? 19 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: No. 20 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 21 Madame Chair. 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Frulio, any 23 questions? 24 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: No. Not at this 25 time. 85 ITEM NO. 16 1 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Madame Chair, I 2 make a motion to: A, preliminarily approve 3 optional bonus wagers in Asia Poker as a new 4 wager compatible with the public interest 5 pursuant to Section 5 of the Act; 6 B, authorize the publication of the 7 notice of proposal to appear in the New Jersey 8 Register for the public to comment thereon; 9 C, authorize the publication of the 10 notice of temporary adoption, which will permit 11 a test of the new wagers to begin on or after 12 June 23, 2008, subject to the conditions listed 13 and continue for a period of time not to exceed 14 270 days; 15 D, temporarily adopt the amendments 16 contained in the notice of proposal for the 17 purpose of conducting the test; 18 E, delegate to the Director of the 19 Division of Compliance the authority to 20 establish the terms and conditions of a test of 21 the new wagers and; 22 F, condition any test of optional bonus 23 wagers in Asia Poker upon the filing with and 24 the approval by the Division of Compliance of 25 all necessary test submissions for a Section 86 ITEM NO. 17 1 69e test of the wager. 2 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 3 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 4 made and seconded. All in favor? 5 (Ayes.) 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 7 (No response.) 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 9 MR. NANCE: Item No. 17, proposed 10 adoption of amendment to NJAC 19:45-1.3. 11 Mr. Mamolen? 12 MR. MAMOLEN: This matter is before you 13 for final adoption, and this amendment would 14 add two additional types of internal controls, 15 changes to which would be excluded from 16 immediate implementation. The first of which 17 are internal controls required by NJAC 18 19:45-1-B(c) for the disbursement of 19 complimentary cash gifts in any manner other 20 than by a general cashier in a cashier's cage, 21 and the second of which is internal controls 22 regarding the issuance of cash complimentaries 23 utilizing electronic credit transfer system 24 pursuant to NJAC 19:45-1.37A. 25 These are changes to internal controls 87 ITEM NO. 18 1 within, by default would be subject to the 2 15-day review period. 3 We received but one comment to the 4 proposal, that from the Division of Gaming 5 Enforcement, which did not impose an 6 objection-- interpose an objection to the 7 submission and the adoption of the proposal. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 9 Any questions? 10 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Motion to adopt 11 as published. 12 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Second. 13 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 14 made and seconded. All in favor? 15 (Ayes.) 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 17 (No response.) 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 19 MR. NANCE: Item No. 18, readoption of 20 NJAC 19:55. 21 Miss Frank? 22 MS. FRANK: If you approve the 23 readoption of Chapter 55 today, it will become 24 effective upon the filing with the Office of 25 Administrative Law tomorrow. 88 ITEM NO. 19 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Because we made no 2 changes; correct? 3 MS. FRANK: Right. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Very good. 5 Any questions? 6 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Move to approve 7 for readoption. 8 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 10 made and seconded. All in favor? 11 (Ayes.) 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 13 (No response.) 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 15 MR. NANCE: Item No. 19, proposed 16 readoption of NJAC 19:46. 17 Miss Frank? 18 MS. FRANK: If you approve the proposed 19 readoption of Chapter 46 today, it will appear 20 in the July 7th New Jersey register. 21 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. And this 22 is for gaming equipment? 23 MS. FRANK: Yes. 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Any questions? 25 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 89 ITEM NO. 20 1 Madame Chair. 2 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Move to approve 3 the proposed readoption. 4 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 6 made and seconded. All in favor? 7 (Ayes.) 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 11 MS. FRANK: Thank you. 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 13 MR. NANCE: Item No. 20, petition of 14 Harrah's Entertainment, Inc., Harrah's 15 Operating Company, Inc., Harrah's Atlantic City 16 Operating Company, LLC, Showboat Atlantic City 17 Operating Company, LLC, Bally's Park Place, and 18 Boardwalk Regency Corp., for waiver of 19 qualification for corporate officer positions. 20 Miss Wozniak? 21 MS. WOZNIAK: Good morning. Mr. Lowry 22 is here for the Petitioners, and Miss Flaherty 23 for the Division. 24 And I have circulated a draft 25 resolution. 90 ITEM NO. 20 1 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 2 Mr. Lowry? 3 MR. LOWRY: Yes, thank you, Madame 4 Chair. 5 These are three newly created positions, 6 Vice President of Centralized Services 7 Projects, Vice President of Development, and 8 Vice President of Capital Effectiveness. And 9 we respectfully request that you grant the 10 relief requested. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 12 Miss Flaherty? 13 MS. FLAHERTY: Yes, Chair. 14 The Director concurs in the waiver of 15 the four additional in the three positions 16 subject to the Vice Presidents of Development 17 retaining the same focus geographic areas as 18 they have now, which is outside of Atlantic 19 City. 20 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Atlantic City. 21 MS. FLAHERTY: And we concur with the 22 draft resolution. 23 Thank you. 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 25 Any questions? 91 ITEM NO. 20 1 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 2 Madame Chair. 3 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Madame Chair, I move 4 that we adopt the draft resolution and waive 5 the qualification requirements pursuant to NJSA 6 5:12-85d(1) as the following officers: Janet 7 Philippi in her capacity as Vice President of 8 Centralized Services and Projects; Gail -- 9 hmmm -- Kaliszeski. 10 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Very good. 11 COMMISSIONER EPPS: And Brian Yost in 12 their capacity as Vice Presents of Development; 13 and Christian Johnson in his capacity as Vice 14 President of Capital Effectiveness. 15 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: Second. 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion has been made 17 and second. This is a roll call vote. 18 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Frulio? 19 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Yes. 20 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Fedorko? 21 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Yes. 22 MR. NANCE: Commissioner Epps? 23 COMMISSIONER EPPS: Yes. 24 MR. NANCE: Vice Chair Sommeling? 25 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Yes. 92 ITEM NO. 21 1 MR. NANCE: Chair Kassekert? 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Yes. 3 MR. NANCE: The record will reflect that 4 the motion is unanimous. 5 MR. LOWRY: Thank you. 6 MR. NANCE: Item No. 21, petition of 7 Gaming Laboratories, International, Inc., and 8 Gaming Laboratories International, LLC, for 9 transaction waivers to permit Petitioners to 10 continue to operate a slot machine testing 11 laboratory. 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Ingis? 13 MR. INGIS: Madame Chair, Commissioners. 14 Mr. Daly is here on behalf of the Petitioners. 15 I spoke with Mr. McDonough. He is unable to 16 appear, but he has indicated he has no 17 objection to the relief being sought. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Mr. Daly? 19 MR. DALY: Good morning, Madame Chair. 20 Commissioners. Good to see you. 21 It's nice that you saved the best for 22 last. I'm referring, of course, to Mr. Maida. 23 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: We knew that. 24 (Laughter.) 25 MR. DALY: Since there's no opposition, 93 ITEM NO. 21 1 I just ask that you grant the relief requested. 2 And Mr. Maida is available for any 3 questions you may have. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 5 Nobody from the Division? 6 MS. FLAHERTY: We have no objection to 7 it. 8 (Laughter.) 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you, Mary Jo. 10 Are there any questions? 11 COMMISSIONER SOMMELING: No questions, 12 Madame Chair. 13 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Grant the 14 petition and permit Gaming Laboratories 15 International, LLC, to continue to operate the 16 slot machine testing laboratory prior to 17 licensure through transactional waivers until 18 November the 21st -- which happens to be my 19 birthday -- 2008, pursuant to NJSA 20 5:12-92(a)(2). 21 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Second. 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 23 made and seconded. All in favor? 24 (Ayes.) 25 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 94 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 (No response.) 2 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 3 MR. DALY: Thank you very much. 4 MR. NANCE: In accordance with 5 Resolution No. 07-12-12-26, the next closed 6 session of the Commission shall be held on 7 Wednesday, June 4th, 2008, at 9 a.m. in the 8 Commission offices. 9 It is the now time for the public 10 participation portion of the meeting. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Is there anyone from 12 the public that wishes to be heard? 13 Mr. Gumper? Would you mind stating your 14 name for the record, please. 15 MR. GUMPER: I'd be very happy to. I 16 don't know whether to say good morning, 17 Commissioners, or good afternoon. 18 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Still morning. 19 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Got five minutes. 20 MR. GUMPER: Good morning then. My name 21 is William Gumper. I submitted a proposal to 22 you that I want to go into. 23 But, first, I've come up with something 24 that I think would be a method of attracting 25 patrons to drive to Atlantic City casinos. 95 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 That would bring a little more income into the 2 casinos. 3 Could I give you a copy of this? 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sure. 5 MR. GUMPER: This is a last-minute thing 6 that I just thought of, and I scribbled it. 7 It's not going to be big money, but I think it 8 would beneficial to the patrons who drive to 9 the casinos. I'll read it off. 10 A method of attracting patrons to drive 11 to Atlantic City casinos is for the casino 12 corporations to allow patrons to pay their 13 parking fee with comp credit since the casinos 14 allow restaurant meals to be paid with comp 15 credit and to pay for hotel rooms and shows 16 with comp credit and to pay for casino gift 17 cards and gasoline cards. Why not parking 18 charges as well? Or if not the whole parking 19 fee -- I understand that Atlantic City takes a 20 tax from that. Perhaps the casinos could allow 21 a portion of that parking fee to be paid by 22 comp credit. I think it would be attract more 23 people. And it's a good -- it's a good public 24 relations ploy. 25 So I would ask that you would consider 96 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 sending a letter to the casinos on your 2 letterhead suggesting it to them. And it's 3 only a suggestion. It's up to the casinos to 4 make that decision, but -- 5 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Well, I can't do that 6 on our letterhead. 7 MR. GUMPER: Well -- 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: But what I will do is 9 give this right to Mr. Lowry who represent 10 Harrah's casino, which is about 40 percent of 11 the market here. 12 MR. GUMPER: Well, Harrah's casino right 13 now doesn't charge anything. I've been in 14 there. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Well, he may get an 16 idea to charge something so. 17 MR. GUMPER: Well, I would hope that the 18 other casinos would get this. Because 19 something sent in by the Commission would give 20 much greater consideration than just a retired 21 nobody like myself. 22 MR. LOWRY: Chair, I -- 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Well, I thank you. 24 But we have to regulate the casinos, so we have 25 to be very careful in times of suggestions that 97 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 we made to them so we're not seen as trying to 2 run their businesses. But thank you for your 3 suggestion. 4 MR. GUMPER: Okay. Now, on the proposal 5 I submitted, which I'll just read off the 6 subject matter first. A proposal to bring 7 additional voluntary revenue into the State of 8 New Jersey Treasury by expanding gaming into 9 towns and municipalities throughout the state. 10 In addition to the proposal, I've come 11 up with four exhibits that come out after I 12 submitted this, and I'd like to hand them to 13 you. 14 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 15 MR. GUMPER: May I do so? 16 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Sure. 17 MR. GUMPER: And then I'll go into the 18 proposal. 19 I'll keep one copy for myself so I 20 remember what I'm doing here. 21 You want me to distribute them or -- 22 CHAIR KASSEKERT: I can do that. 23 MR. GUMPER: Thank you. 24 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Uh-hum. 25 MR. GUMPER: And if there are any news 98 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 people here, I have some extra copies to give 2 to them. 3 I'm trying to get across -- 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: I don't think there is 5 any. 6 MR. GUMPER: -- as much support as I can 7 from the public. 8 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Now, I know that you 9 know that Mr. Kell has talked to you about the 10 fact that this requires a change in the 11 constitution. 12 MR. GUMPER: I understand. That would 13 be a lengthy process. But the State of New 14 Jersey is in a financial bind right now. If it 15 continues this way, the State may eventually 16 have to declare bankruptcy. It's not going to 17 happen right away. 18 But I'm a writer of quality-of-life 19 projects, and I think this would be helpful. 20 This proposal that I've submitted to you would 21 benefit the State of New Jersey and the casinos 22 and the townships that are hurting financially. 23 Okay. 24 I want to go into it. The history. At 25 the present period of time the federal 99 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 government has an extremely large financial 2 deficit and can no longer give appropriate 3 amounts of financial aid to each state. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Maybe if you could 5 just summarize a little bit? 6 MR. GUMPER: Oh, okay. 7 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thanks. 8 MR. GUMPER: The State and federal 9 government are hurting financially. They've 10 got big deficits, and New Jersey has authorized 11 certain organization to use state-approved 12 machines for charitable purposes. And the 13 proposal I've given you is a plan that requires 14 a passage -- I'll just read the one paragraph. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Okay. 16 MR. GUMPER: Passage of legislation 17 allowing each township the option of creating 18 one small township-owned slot machine parlor 19 composed of a limited amount of penny and 20 nickel machines programmed to accept only small 21 amounts of coinage for each player at the 22 machine. No amounts of over ten pennies or 23 three nickels will be accepted by a machine for 24 each play. 25 Now, this would -- this would give the 100 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 townships -- this would be a -- because a slot 2 parlor that's owned by the township but 3 mandated by law to be managed by a consortium 4 commission of the employees of the corporations 5 that own casinos in Atlantic City. The casinos 6 are losing a lot of money to other states 7 through their slot machines in other states. 8 Here's a chance for these casinos to bring more 9 money in by expanding the gaming throughout the 10 State of New Jersey. 11 Townships are hurting, also. They 12 have-- they're not getting money from the 13 federal government or the State of New Jersey 14 anymore. Neither the government or the State 15 has the money to give them. 16 I'll go through these four exhibits. 17 Another advantage of the slot machine parlor in 18 all the townships within the State of New 19 Jersey, with the current cost of -- current 20 high cost of fuel for private vehicles and the 21 inconvenience of the aged and handicapped 22 population of the state traveling great 23 distances, a multitude of small-stake slot 24 machine players would prefer to play slots that 25 are conveniently located in their own township. 101 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 In addition, food and beverages, 2 possibly including alcoholic beverages, may be 3 sold there, thus creating more township and 4 state income for -- from annual license fees. 5 This would also create much needed employment 6 for local township residents. In turn, the 7 expanded employment would result in additional 8 income taxes paid into the state and federal 9 government each year. 10 Please note that there are 551 townships 11 in the State of New Jersey. 12 Every day I seem to be collecting 13 articles from the newspapers on the casino 14 losing money. You have that in front of you. 15 Then another article from the Asbury Park 16 Press, the troubles in the casino industry. 17 Which is a negative. And, finally, from 18 Berkeley Times, which is a local newspaper, an 19 article from Joseph Viccari, one of the 20 freeholders of Ocean County, indicating how 21 badly the townships are hurting in Ocean 22 County. 23 And one of these articles -- one of 24 these exhibits, it even indicates -- and I 25 believe I've highlighted it. It indicates that 102 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 my own township of Berkeley, of all things, is 2 hoping to get welfare payments from the State 3 of New Jersey. This is a ridiculous situation. 4 I don't know if this plan is practical. I 5 leave it to those that are in authority to make 6 that judgment. 7 I would ask, could you send this into 8 the state legislature? 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: I really think that 10 you should do that. The Commission does not 11 normally take a position on -- on legislative 12 matters over which we would have authority to 13 regulate. I'd be very concerned about us doing 14 that. I think that perhaps you should, you 15 know, write your legislators and let them know 16 about that. 17 I would say that I think there's a big 18 concern about expanding gaming anywhere. And 19 the casinos in New Jersey, in fact, are very 20 concerned about the proposed expansion at 21 racetracks. So I don't know about your success 22 on it. 23 But I appreciate you trying to think 24 outside the box. And I think that's very good. 25 And more citizens should really do that. But 103 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 1 I-- we can't do that as a Commission. But you 2 could do that by talking to your legislators. 3 MR. GUMPER: Could I ask you what your 4 thoughts are on the plan? Is it practical or 5 is it impractical? 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: I would, frankly, have 7 a lot of concerns about it, but that's just 8 speaking personally. And I don't want to speak 9 on behalf of the Commission. 10 MR. GUMPER: I understand. I 11 understand. 12 CHAIR KASSEKERT: But, again, I really 13 appreciate your thinking outside the box. 14 It seems Ocean County residents do that; 15 right, Commissioner Frulio? 16 COMMISSIONER FRULIO: Correct. 17 Mr. Gumper, you do know that the 18 legislature has an office on Lacey Road, and 19 it's best that you go -- 20 MR. GUMPER: I've been down there. And 21 of course, they're painting the office right 22 now. The legislators were not there. I 23 received -- I submitted a copy of this, and I 24 received a letter back which didn't relate to 25 this plan at all. It was just a bread-and- 104 1 butter letter telling -- just normally thank 2 you for sending in whatever it is you sent in. 3 Didn't -- it didn't respond to this whatsoever. 4 But I wanted to give this as much support as I 5 can. 6 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Uh-hum. 7 MR. GUMPER: If anybody has a better 8 plan to bring into voluntary revenue to the 9 State of New Jersey and to the townships and to 10 the casinos, I'm all for it. 11 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 12 MR. GUMPER: But nobody seems to have 13 done this. 14 Well, I guess that's it. 15 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Good. Thanks for 16 coming. 17 MR. GUMPER: And thank you for listening 18 to me. 19 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Thank you. 20 Is there anyone else from the public 21 that wishes to be heard? 22 (No response.) 23 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Seeing no one, I'll 24 declare this portion of the meeting closed and 25 entertain a motion to adjourn. 105 1 VICE CHAIR SOMMELING: Motion to 2 adjourn. 3 COMMISSIONER FEDORKO: Second. 4 CHAIR KASSEKERT: The motion has been 5 made and seconded. All in favor? 6 (Ayes.) 7 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Opposed? 8 (No response.) 9 CHAIR KASSEKERT: Motion carries. 10 (Public Meeting No. 08-05-21 was 11 adjourned at 12:03 p.m.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 106 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T E 3 4 5 I, DARLENE SILLITOE, a Certified Court 6 Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New 7 Jersey, certify that the foregoing is a true 8 and accurate transcript of the proceedings. 9 10 11 I further certify that I am neither 12 attorney, of counsel for, nor related to or 13 employed by any of the parties to the action; 14 further that I am not a relative or employee of 15 any attorney or counsel employed in this case; 16 nor am I financially interested in the action. 17 18 19 DARLENE SILLITOE CCR 20 License No XI01023 21 22 Dated: May 26, 2008 23 My Commission Expires on July 10, 2009 24 ID No 2062871 25