1 1 STATE OF NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION 2 3 IN THE MATTER OF: : 4 PUBLIC HEARING - : 5 NEW JERSEY CLEAN AIR COUNCIL : 6 ------------------------------- 7 8 April 10, 2002 9 Department of 10 Environmental Protection 11 9:00 a.m. 12 13 14 15 B E F O R E: NEW JERSEY CLEAN AIR COUNCIL 16 17 18 19 20 21 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 22 824 West State Street 23 Trenton, New Jersey 08618 24 (609) 989-9199 1-800-368-7652 (TOLL FREE) 25 (FAX) 609-392-7978 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 2 1 NEW JERSEY CLEAN AIR COUNCIL MEMBERS 2 3 JOHN MAXWELL, Chairman 4 MICHAEL EGENTON 5 JOSEPH SPATOLA, Ph.D. 6 LEONARD BIELORY, M.D. 7 RICHARD AICHER 8 RAYMOND MANGANELLI, Ph.D 9 STEPHEN PAPENBERG 10 MICHAEL BERRY 11 FERDOWS ALI 12 GENE FEYL 13 IRWIN ZONIS 14 BARRY SCHLEGEL 15 CHUCK McCARTY 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 3 1 I N D E X 2 3 SPEAKERS: PAGE 4 1) Bradley Campbell - DEP 9 5 Commissioner 6 2) Dorothy Bowers (NACEPT) 27 7 3) Carlos Rodrigues - Department 50 8 of Community Affairs 9 4) Frank Sherman, (LEEDS Program) 68 10 5) William Baker - EPA 90 11 6) Councilwoman Alison Miller - 109 12 (West Windsor) 13 7) Joseph Della Fave - 125 14 (Ironbound Community) 15 8) Steve Flint- New York Department 146 16 of Environmental Conservation 17 9) Steve Bauman - Jersey Central 165 18 Power & Light 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 4 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 SPEAKER PAGE 3 Robert Campbell, New Jersey Sierra Club 185 4 Jeff Tuttle, New Jersey Sierra Club 193 5 Travis Madsen, NJPIRG 202 6 Dr. Stephen Paul, Princeton University 215 7 Jim Curry, Environmental Educational 229 8 Fund 9 Marie Curtis, Executive Director, 236 10 N.J. Environmental Lobby 11 Jane Tousman, New Jersey Sierra Club 246 12 Alice Gitchell, Richard Stockton College 252 13 Rhesa Ramdeen, Richard Stockton College 265 14 Mike Napoli, Public Address for 271 15 Advancing Clean Air Legislation 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 5 1 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Good morning, 2 everybody. Welcome to the 36th public, 36th 3 annual public hearing of the Clean Air Council, 4 and what I'd like to do is I'd like to, first of 5 all, welcome everybody here. This is a good 6 turnout, we will have more coming out as the day 7 goes on. What I'd like to do is ask for the 8 Council members to introduce themselves and say a 9 little bit about who they are, and then I would 10 also like to ask Irwin Zonis and Ray Manganelli, 11 who have been on the Council before it began, the 12 pre-Council which is an advisory board to the 13 Commissioner, to give a very brief overview of 14 the history of the Clean Air Council. 15 I am John Maxwell. I am proud to 16 have been elected by my peers here on the Council 17 as the Chair. We rotate the Chair, it goes 18 around. I think many of the folks have been the 19 Chair, and when I am not working on the Clean Air 20 Council, I work with the New Jersey Petroleum 21 Council. 22 MR. EGENTON: Good morning, I am 23 Michael Egenton. I am with the New Jersey State 24 Chamber of Commerce, and I handle specifically 25 environment energy and transportation issues at GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 6 1 the State Chamber. Pleased to be here, thank 2 you. 3 MR. SPATOLA: Good morning, my name 4 is Joseph Spatola. I am the Executive Director of 5 the County Utilities Authority, and my 6 representation on the board here is as a public 7 member. 8 DR. BIELORY: I am Dr. Leonard 9 Bielory, Director of New Jersey Medical School in 10 Newark, New Jersey, director, appointed by the 11 Governor to represent the medical perspectives on 12 health/clean air. 13 MR. AICHER: My name is Richard 14 Aicher, assistant business manager with the 15 International Electrical Workers here in Trenton, 16 and I am representing New Jersey AFL-CIO and 17 Council. 18 MR. PAPENBERG: Stephen Papenberg, I 19 am the Health Officer of South Brunswick 20 Township. I am representing New Jersey Health 21 Officers Association and represent 115 health 22 departments servicing the 566 municipalities in 23 local and public health. 24 MR. BERRY: I am Michael Berry. I 25 represent the New Jersey Department of Health and GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 7 1 Senior Services, and I am a epidemiologist and 2 research scientist with the Department. 3 MR. ALI: I am sitting in for Peter 4 Anderson. I am Ferdows Ali, the water specialist 5 for the Department but since air and water are 6 intimately related, they sent me to this meeting. 7 MR. FEYL: I am Gene Feyl, 8 representative of the New Jersey State League of 9 Municipalities, Mayor of Denville Township. 10 MR. ZONIS: I am Irwin Zonis. I am 11 retired and a public member of the Clean Air 12 Council. 13 Mr. Chairman, I need to correct you 14 because the first meeting of the Clean Air 15 Council was in September of 1968, the Council of 16 course, was set up by Legislature. I think our 17 first public hearing was in the spring of 1969, I 18 can't swear to that because memory dims after 19 these years, but in 1969 was the first public 20 hearing. This is the 34th -- 21 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you. 22 MR. ZONIS: I was a member of a 23 predecessor board which was the Air Pollution 24 Control Commission, that group was a regulatory 25 group not an advisory group and also set up by GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 8 1 the Legislature, but it was terminated by the 2 Legislature in 1966. There was a lag time of 3 about a year between the Old Air Pollution 4 Control Commission and the New Council. The 5 Council of course, is regulatory -- the Council 6 is advisory and I would like to think that in the 7 period of time since September of 1968 this 8 Council and its members have been of some help to 9 the Commissioner of the Department of 10 Environmental Protection, and we hope that that 11 aid and assistance and advice continues for many 12 more years. 13 MR. SCHLEGEL: Barry Schlegel, I 14 represent the New Jersey section of American 15 Industrial Hygiene Association, and I work for 16 the Environmental Institute in Public Education. 17 MR. McCARTY: Chuck McCarty, I 18 represent New Jersey Commerce Commission. 19 MR. MANGANELLI: Ray Manganelli, 20 Rutgers Emeritus, I represent the public and I 21 would like to add a couple words on the history. 22 Going back in 1948 when the 23 Pennsylvania situation occurred which is of great 24 interest in air pollution that could happen here 25 and then in 1954 is when the first Air Pollution GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 9 1 Control Law sponsored by, I believe Senator Jones 2 up in North Jersey went in, I think it was among 3 the first laws in the United States that was very 4 strict and that's when the Air Pollution Council 5 was formed which Irwin Zonis served. 6 Then in 1967, when Senator Quarneri 7 came up with the change in the law; however, at 8 that time, he gave the powers to the Department 9 to make the laws and make the regulations enforce 10 it which was bad government, so they brought in 11 the Clean Air Council to look and keep everything 12 honest at this point. 13 Then there was a more recent change 14 in the law but still kept the Clean Air Council. 15 Going back we were under the Department of Health 16 at the time, and when the Department of 17 Environmental Protection was formed in the early 18 '70s and we were transferred to the Department of 19 Environmental Protection and, of course, Sullivan 20 was the first commissioner, this gives you a 21 picture, we have been working rather diligently 22 all these years. 23 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 24 much. It is an honor to be here with all of you, 25 and Ray and Irwin have been the rocks of GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 10 1 Gibraltar here on the Council through all the 2 years. It is my great privilege to introduce 3 Brad Campbell, the new Commissioner of the 4 Department of Environmental Protection. 5 Mr. Commissioner, welcome to our 6 public hearing, we look forward to hearing your 7 remarks. 8 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: Thanks very 9 much and welcome to the Council. I want to 10 thank you for your contributions to the 11 Department and also welcome you to what I hope is 12 a new and exciting chapter at Department of 13 Environmental Protection and I hope will make it 14 a new and exciting chapter in the Council's works 15 given that history and the fact that you have 16 seen many commissioners come and go, we will hope 17 to make this an exciting several years for you 18 ahead. 19 I also want to acknowledge and thank 20 Sam Wolfe, who many of you know, the new 21 Assistant Commissioner for Environmental 22 Regulation, who is already bringing extraordinary 23 energy and leadership to Department of 24 Environmental Protection. I think that while 25 there are many honors in this job and a great GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 11 1 honor in being selected by the Governor to lead 2 the Department, one of the greatest honors you 3 can have in a job like this is where you recruit 4 someone you greatly admire to come work for you, 5 and Sam is certainly one of those persons, and I 6 am grateful for his willingness to shift back to 7 public service after a brief stint in the private 8 sector. 9 It is an exciting time to be at 10 Department of Environmental Protection and an 11 exciting time to be in environmental protection 12 under a Governor who truly has a vision for the 13 environment and for our communities. First and 14 foremost, a Governor, one of whose earliest 15 priorities was for "Smart Growth" Executive Order 16 Number Four, to promote development in the areas 17 where we know it will make the job of protecting 18 clean air and clean water easier. 19 That vision and that commitment to 20 environmental protection extends not nearly to 21 Smart Growth and that initial executive order but 22 across a range of initiatives even at this early 23 point in the administration, most recently a 24 budget, a budget that not only is a contrast with 25 prior administrations confronted with budget GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 12 1 deficits in the sense that I think for the first 2 time since the creation of the commission, a 3 major budget deficit was not met by 4 disproportionate cutting funds at Department of 5 Environmental Protection, but a budget that 6 protects the Department's correspondence 7 functions and actually allows us to increase 8 enforcement by at least 5 percent in the coming 9 year also addresses the funding to the Department 10 by closing the corporate business tax loopholes 11 and addressing the inequity of a situation in 12 which, of the 50 largest employers in the state, 13 30 pay $200 in corporate business taxes, less in 14 many cases than working families below the 15 poverty line. 16 That leadership which not only 17 extends to the budget but because a portion of 18 the corporate business tax revenues are devoted 19 to the Department onto environmental protection 20 not only ensures that over the short term we are 21 meeting state's fiscal challenge but over the 22 long term, the Department and environmental 23 protection will have more stable funding. That 24 having been said, and we do face enormous 25 challenges at the Department and particularly GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 13 1 clean air challenges, we remain in a posture in 2 which most, in fact, nearly all New Jerseyan 3 breathe unhealthy air for some part of the year. 4 We are in that posture at the very moment when 5 the scientific linkages between dirty air and 6 adverse health impacts are being more and more 7 strongly demonstrated, links between asthma and 8 dirty air. Links between pulmonary and cardiac 9 ailments. These links are being documented in 10 study after study and yet at that very moment we 11 can't assure the residents of the state that they 12 will have clean, healthy air. Curiously, those 13 links are being established in terms of the links 14 between health and clean air, those links are 15 being established at the very moment that we see 16 the Federal Government abdicated from its 17 responsibility to protect clean air. Most 18 recently in President Bush's proposal to replace 19 existing clean air programs with a much weaker 20 alternative called the Clean Skies Proposal might 21 more aptly be called the Brown Skies proposal 22 particularly for New Jersey because it is the 23 effort to clean up dirty power plants upwind of 24 New Jersey, out of State of New Jersey that are 25 one of the principal causes of dirty air in the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 14 1 state. And not only dirty air, not only health 2 problems, but also have competitive challenges 3 for the state. We recently, for example, 4 announced a settlement with PSEG concerning some 5 of their power-generating stations that promises 6 cleaner air in New Jersey, that addresses dirty 7 plants here in New Jersey and yet in a 8 deregulated market those same generating stations 9 are competing with electricity generating upwind 10 in uncontrolled sources and by virtue of trying 11 to protect air here in New Jersey, by virtue of 12 the abdication of federal responsibility, I am 13 concerned that we need to push harder on the 14 Federal Government to make sure that the New 15 Jersey companies aren't at a competitive 16 disadvantage because of that abdication. There 17 are other challenges as well. Certainly the 18 fact that vehicle miles traveled, VNT's, continue 19 to increase at a time when vehicle miles per 20 gallon is not increasing and if the efficiency of 21 newer cars is not moving in the direction that 22 we'd like in terms of protecting cleaner air, 23 that is another set of challenges. We have 24 made progress particularly in controlling some of 25 the stationary sources in the state. That GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 15 1 challenge, which again ties back to the 2 Governor's vision for Smart Growth, is a 3 significant one, I think, for the Department in 4 the years ahead. 5 We also have an administrative set 6 of challenges that are linked to the challenge of 7 clean air. As the Council will know, the 8 administration comes into office inheriting a 9 significant backlog of Title Five permits under 10 the Clean Air Program, a backlog that has direct 11 impacts on protection of public health and the 12 environment. And those challenges in some sense 13 are both administrative policy and intellectual 14 in the sense that we need to change the way we do 15 business at the Department if we are ever going 16 to address those challenges in a way that 17 strengthens protection of clean air. The 18 challenge, and some of these challenges are ones 19 that I think are really challenges for the 20 Council in terms of the advice and the assistance 21 you provide to the Department, and the new ideas 22 that you can give to us, in terms of how we 23 address those challenges. 24 Let me list a few of them. First 25 with reference to the Title Five backlog, how do GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 16 1 we address that backlog? Process permits more 2 quickly move to more general permits by rule, 3 different, more innovative regulatory approaches 4 and still very clearly demonstrate that we are 5 enhancing protection of public health and the 6 environment, that we are strengthening standards 7 and protections for our communities, how do we 8 make that transition. In air, as in other 9 areas, the universe of activities and parties 10 regulated by the Department has actually, has 11 increased significantly, nearly doubled in 12 certain programs, and yet the resources available 13 to write the permits, oversee the permits, 14 enforce the permits, those resources have been 15 declining. How do we change the way we do 16 business to both process things more quickly, 17 give businesses the answers and the certainty 18 they need but give communities the assurances 19 they need that their health is being protected, 20 and that the protection is being put in place, 21 address the risks they face from dirty air. 22 How do we approach the issues of 23 Smart Growth when it comes to our clean air 24 challenges, how do we create a regulatory 25 structure in which we are actually creating GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 17 1 regulatory incentives to go to our already 2 developed cities, to redevelop in our older 3 developed areas, to look to new development in 4 our older communities, whether they are cities or 5 older suburbs. How do we create that incentive 6 structure? I'd like New Jersey, for example, to 7 be the leader in translating land use into Clean 8 Air Act incentives. For example, translating 9 every unit of residential population to an urban 10 or older suburban area into vehicle miles 11 traveled credits. Translating grant development 12 into reductions in emissions because we know by 13 creating employment in brown field areas, by 14 restoring population to our older cities and 15 older suburbs where there is transportation 16 infrastructure exist, where there is water 17 infrastructure exist, we know we reduced VMT, we 18 know we make it much easier. But the challenge 19 of translating those again and making the way for 20 different regulatory approaches, different 21 regulatory system ones that are going to be 22 fraught with people's challenges, fraught with 23 intellectual challenges and fraught with real 24 life practical concerns, for businesses, and 25 environmental organizations, and I look forward GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 18 1 to the advice of the Council as we begin to 2 address those issues in ernest. There are a 3 range of areas like that, I think, where we are 4 going to effect significant change in the 5 Department. We can't simple go on in a pattern 6 of environmental protection that was largely 7 established, not before, but shortly after the 8 Council first met in the late '60s. Most of our 9 statutes, most of our approaches were largely 10 scripted in the initial wave of environmental 11 statutes that came along in the early '70s. How 12 do we break away from some of those models in a 13 way that enhances environmental protection while 14 at the same time addressing some of the 15 frustrations with the regulatory system. 16 I think that is the challenge before 17 us, and the challenge to which we look to the 18 Council in its role of providing advice and 19 support to our efforts to protect clean air in 20 the State of New Jersey. 21 Again, I look forward to my work 22 with the Council, I think you are as aware as I 23 am of the challenges that we face. Fortunately, 24 New Jersey historically has been a leader in 25 environmental protection, a leader in GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 19 1 environmental innovations; I think under this 2 Governor's administration we will reassert that 3 role and we will do it with the help of the 4 Council in guiding us toward the right answers 5 and answers that are fully thought out in terms 6 of the impacts to health, the impacts to our 7 towns and cities, the concern for greater 8 environmental protection. 9 Thank you. I look forward to this 10 new chapter in your history and certainly a new 11 chapter in mine. I am happy to pause and answer 12 any questions that you might have. 13 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Dr. Manganelli. 14 DR. MANGANELLI: We certainly 15 appreciate very much and honored by your coming 16 here and your challenges that you have thrown to 17 us will certainly be taken up and very fine 18 challenges. One of the things we had read about 19 you that you were great on enforcement and we 20 would like to hear what your plans are for 21 enforcement of our regulations or the updated 22 regulations that you are planning to have. 23 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: I think 24 there are a couple of components of enforcement. 25 One is we are going to be much more focused on GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 20 1 outcome based enforcement demonstrating, as is 2 usually the case, clear environmental public 3 health benefits of the enforcement and targeting 4 enforcement to where we get the greatest 5 environmental public health benefit. 6 I think while there will be an 7 increase in enforcement activity, it is going to 8 be smart enforcement and targeted to the areas 9 where we have the most significant environmental 10 challenges. Part of that will involve not just 11 an increase in resources, but a redeploying of 12 resources. We are going to be looking for 13 models that allow us to spend less time at the 14 companies and permittees who we know to be 15 compliant and good actors, less time to the kind 16 of routine inspections that are unproductive, 17 more time on the serious issues of noncompliance, 18 and the people who frankly aren't yet in the 19 permit system, who we need to begin to address if 20 we are going to take on some of our enforcement 21 challenges. 22 As part of that, I think we need to 23 look very closely at some enforcement 24 innovations. One of those is to provide greater 25 incentives in the system for third party GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 21 1 certification of compliance as a substitute for 2 enforcement. Can we, for example, deem this is 3 less done under the air and air/water permits, 4 can we deem essentially third party certification 5 if adequate safeguards are in place, can we deem 6 a reinspection then so that we can have our 7 resources of other environmental enforcement 8 problems. 9 We are looking particularly in the 10 context of some of the environmental leadership 11 programs, the gold and silver track type 12 programs, how can we take those to the next level 13 of encouraging our very best regulated parties 14 not only to establish and submit to superior 15 levels in environmental performance but allows 16 their commitments to free us up to pay attention 17 to other more pressing problems. While we 18 reallocate some additional resources to 19 enforcement, we have to really revamp the system 20 if we are going to get environmental benefits 21 commensurate with the resources we are putting 22 into the areas. That are some of the areas. 23 MR. PAPENBERG: Commissioner, I would 24 like to remind you that you do have 115 agencies 25 out at the local municipal level and county level GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 22 1 that feel free to use us. There is a County 2 Environmental Health Act Program which is being 3 utilized now, but I think that can be enhanced 4 and you can actually bring in additional 5 resources because we are there. We are at the 6 local level and it is a lot easier many times for 7 your people, Department of Environmental 8 Protection, to pick up the phone and say could 9 you take a ride out to this site and just check 10 this out for us, rather than sending somebody 11 from Trenton 40 or 50 or 60 miles away. And 12 there is usually a tremendous interest at the 13 local level in assuring that, in fact, the 14 regulations are being adhered to. 15 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: Actually, I 16 am very interested in improving coordination 17 between what the Department does and the CEHA 18 programs, both in terms of making sure that we 19 are using our resourceS wisely and leveraging, 20 for example, each other's resources but also to 21 ensure that we are being consistent, that we are 22 setting common priorities, that we are 23 complementing the work that is done by the CEHA 24 agencies, coming from out of state took awhile, 25 what is the CAAA of that is a very high interest, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 23 1 I think enforcement, obviously enforcement always 2 has complaints that come about, people who feel 3 are being too hard, too easy, I think are at our 4 best in defending enforcement publicly when we 5 are consistent, when we are demonstrating 6 fairness and demonstrating real outputs in terms 7 of protecting health and environment and given 8 the significant role that the CEHA agencies play, 9 we can only do that if we enhance coordination 10 and any help that you can provide to me in making 11 that happen and setting up the mechanisms and 12 working with the Assistant Commissioner, Lisa 13 Jackson, Assistant Commissioner for Enforcement 14 who again, like Sam Wolfe, brings an incredible 15 resume to her job, has just recently won the 16 Administrator's Award for excellence as basically 17 the national leader in innovative management in 18 EPA, and I am looking forward to working with her 19 and with the CEHA agencies to have a more 20 coordinated effort . 21 MR. SPATOLA: Commissioner, brown 22 fields redevelopment and transportation issues 23 and air quality improvements always seem to be 24 intertwined and also seem to suggest some sort of 25 overlap within your departments, is that GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 24 1 something that we can be looking forward to in 2 terms of how this regionalization or 3 universalization of how you put it, Smart Growth, 4 will be attempted here are by the Department. 5 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: I think that 6 is one of the great advantages of Governor's 7 Smart Growth executive order, it really brings 8 all of the relevant agencies to the table and it 9 also reminds us that as a Department, that we 10 can't look at our jobs with blinders on in terms 11 of the missions of the other agencies. 12 Curiously, for some, I spent part of Monday 13 morning announcing the Griscomb bridge project 14 and I think there was a small amount of 15 speculation as to why an environmental 16 commissioner would be announcing a bridge. 17 Smart Growth means growth and we are only going 18 to have growth if we start aging some of our 19 development, where we want new growth and I think 20 that kind of inner departmental peace which 21 clearly the Governor, I am not only asking for 22 but I assure you will insist on is going to be 23 enormously important. I think it is a wonderful 24 testament to the Governor's alibilities to select 25 cabinet members, which I think he has a wonderful GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 25 1 ability to select cabinet members. 2 (At which time there was a 3 discussion held off the record.) 4 In selecting Commissioner Knox, who 5 not only has a wonderful record with the 6 transportation industry but has a long record in 7 his roles whether it is working for Governor 8 Florio or Senator Torricelli on working 9 effectively on environmental issues are, in fact, 10 he is one to joke that when we first met he was 11 trying to save the ocean and I was trying to push 12 ahead with transportation infrastructure 13 projects. 14 DR. MANGANELLI: Commissioner, the 15 phrase of environmental health public benefits is 16 an excellent phrase and this brings to mind do 17 you think the problem of indoor air problems, 18 indoor air quality where we spend over 90 percent 19 of our time in confined systems, does it belong 20 in the Department of Environmental Protection or 21 do you have any plans to do something about it? 22 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: I think it 23 definitely belongs in the Department of 24 Environmental Protection. I think it is an area, 25 actually an area where I have also already spoken GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 26 1 with our health commissioner, Cliff Lacey, and I 2 think it is one of the too long neglected 3 problems that we face in terms of air challenges. 4 Most people spend most of their time indoors. 5 To the extent there are issues of exposure, that 6 is an area that we must address. We are also, 7 it is also arising in other context, you know, 8 one of the most important management objectives 9 that I have at the Department is to get different 10 program elements to talk to one another, because 11 I think that's where we will make the best use of 12 our resources and the best decisions. 13 Right now, we have Super Fund cases 14 where volatile organic compounds coming from 15 groundwater are giving people in their own homes 16 unhealthy air, indoor air problems, Super Fund 17 problem, a testament to some of the complexity of 18 the challenges that we face on indoor air. 19 So I think that certainly should be 20 part of the agenda. 21 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Commissioner, 22 thank you, sir, for taking your time to be here. 23 I think on the part of the Council we agree with 24 your observation that the Governor has made some 25 fabulous cabinet choices and along that light GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 27 1 too, you have assembled a first rate team with 2 your assistant commissioners and the appointees 3 you have made. There are many fine folks in 4 Department of Environmental Protection that have 5 been there, and they are truly dedicated to the 6 environment and environmental protection, 7 protection of human health and you have enhanced 8 the Department by your presence and we appreciate 9 your bringing the energy, the insight and the 10 vision to New Jersey. Thank you very much. 11 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Next speaker is 13 Dorothy Bowers, the Chair for the National 14 Advisory Council for Environmental Policy and 15 Technology. We are delighted to have Dorothy 16 here today. She retired as the vice president of 17 environmental policy at Merck & Company. She 18 has had over 30 years of environmental management 19 in New Jersey, still very much involved in 20 environmental activities and on the board of New 21 Jersey Future which is a Smart Growth advisory 22 group. She is a member of the Environmental Law 23 Institute in Washington, which is part of the 24 leadership of the international standards 25 organizations and she's Chair of EPA's NACEPT. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 28 1 We welcome you here today. 2 MS. BOWERS: Thank you very much 3 and thank you all for inviting me here. I would 4 like it to go on the record that I am not the 5 oldest living environmental professional in the 6 State of New Jersey, Irwin Zonis and Ray 7 Manganelli were here before me, so they get the 8 credit for being here longest. 9 I think I am going to talk today 10 about a report that was recently released by the 11 National Advisory Council for Environmental 12 Policy and Technology. NACEPT is one of the two 13 major advisory councils to the administrator, one 14 is the Science Advisory Board which is bigger 15 than what we do and the second is the Policy 16 National Advisory Council on Environmental Policy 17 and Technology, the biggest strength is their 18 position from state agencies, private groups, 19 business and industry, government agencies and 20 NGOs, and so it really brings a cross-section of 21 people together to advise the administrator and 22 brings a broad expertise that is very difficult 23 for an administrator to find anywhere else, so I 24 think NACEPT is a very powerful organization. 25 The previous administrator actually asked NACEPT GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 29 1 to do something for her and the charge was that 2 we look at how EPA might vision into the future 3 and look at how it should be changing itself so 4 that it is prepared to deal with future issues. 5 So we did that and we couldn't resist while we 6 were trying to figure out what the process would 7 be to do some looking into the future on our own, 8 and as a consequence of looking into the future, 9 we published a report that has a very long list 10 of recommendations to EPA that Administrator 11 Whitman sat down with us, spent over an hour, 12 actually going through the recommendations that 13 the Council made for EPA's future. 14 Now, that gets me to how that 15 relates to the Clean Air Council in New Jersey. 16 Joe Spatola called me a few weeks ago and asked 17 me if I would give a talk here today and gave me 18 this list of questions that I ought to address, 19 and I thought that was quite a challenge for 30 20 minutes until I actually sat down with the list 21 and started comparing it with the NACEPT report 22 and found that the issues and the answers to the 23 extent that we were able to come up with answers 24 to these questions were really very much embodied 25 in the NACEPT report. So I decided that what I GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 30 1 would do is to take the presentation that we have 2 been using for the NACEPT report and make some 3 adjustments to it, hopefully to make it go a 4 little faster. But so that I don't reach in and 5 pull out things in an unrelated fashion, I am 6 going to go through the report and I am going to 7 highlight the things where I think there is 8 specific application to the issues that have been 9 raised by the CAC in New Jersey. 10 We organized our look into the 11 future across half a dozen themes. Again, I 12 found it very interesting that many of the 13 questions that have been put forward by the Clean 14 Air Council actually touch on many of these 15 themes, and I am not going to list them because I 16 am going to go through them one at a time. The 17 first one is population and demographics. We 18 basically very quickly came to the conclusion 19 that there were really underlying driving forces 20 for all environmental issues. The first one is 21 population, the second is consumption, and the 22 third is technology, and population drives 23 environmental issues. And so while we had for 24 the EPA a fairly high level list of 25 recommendations, some of them actually do apply GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 31 1 down at the state level. First was we urged EPA 2 to raise the level of awareness about sustainable 3 development. Well, that sounds like something 4 that you do on an international, national level 5 which is actually what we were recommending, but 6 when you bring that back down to the State of New 7 Jersey, it's relevant in exactly what 8 Commissioner Campbell was talking about, getting 9 our growth to happen in the centers where we have 10 infrastructure, planning transportation to 11 support that kind of Smart Growth and population 12 and demographics is as big a driver, I think, on 13 the state level as we saw it to be on a 14 national, international level. 15 The second item we recommended EPA 16 was that they try to facilitate the export of an 17 environmentally superior technologies to 18 developing countries. I might, as I did, add in 19 green here that applies as well to the State of 20 New Jersey that Department of Environmental 21 Protection and others should be encouraging the 22 adoption of environmentally superior technologies 23 in the State of New Jersey, and applying those in 24 U.S. facilities, just as much as we should be 25 trying to export them to developing countries. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 32 1 The second area that we focused on 2 in our report was natural resources and right out 3 of the top popped up energy which is clearly 4 right at the top of your list of issues for 5 attention, and I am only going to skim through 6 these because I am not going to have a lot of 7 time to deal with all of them. But some of them 8 I think are probably properly at the level of 9 encouragement to EPA, clearly Department of 10 Environmental Protection in New Jersey don't have 11 a lot of access to establishing green vehicle 12 labeling programs or partners with the DOE on the 13 freedom CAR, but as those things happened in 14 Washington and happened at a higher level will be 15 important for the State of New Jersey to tap into 16 those and take advantage of them. 17 Just one item that I wanted to 18 encourage to the group here is the last one which 19 is we were recommending that EPA spur investment 20 in renewables and efficiency technologies through 21 the CAA state implementation plans. Well, that 22 is something that the State of New Jersey and 23 Department of Environmental Protection has the 24 power to do on its own, and try to find ways, as 25 Commissioner Campbell suggested, try to find ways GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 33 1 to stimulate innovations. State implementation 2 plans are one avenue for doing that. Some other 3 energy concepts that I think trickle down to New 4 Jersey, the second one on this list, we were 5 strongly recommending demonstration projects for 6 methane to hydrogen conversion and using hydrogen 7 energy technologies at POTWS. One of the 8 questions in your brochures is what are some of 9 the innovative technologies being used at 10 industry and what opportunities are there in the 11 public sector. We have a lot of POTWS in the 12 State of New Jersey, they generate a lot of 13 methane. And we have some very, very active and 14 aggressive skilled universities in the State of 15 New Jersey who are quiet capable of developing 16 and working on technologies to not only 17 demonstrate methane to hydrogen, but to look at 18 technologies for sequestering carbon, and 19 basically pushing the envelope of using hydrogen 20 as a primary energy carrier. 21 So, you know, I really think there 22 are a lot of opportunities here in New Jersey for 23 not just looking at our own energy needs but 24 pushing the energy alternative energy field 25 across the nation, across the world. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 34 1 The second area that we looked at 2 under natural resources was water. Again, I am 3 not going to go through all of these. I will 4 have at the end of the presentation some copies 5 of these overheads for at least some people and 6 maybe the folks at Department of Environmental 7 Protection can duplicate more for others. 8 I'd like to actually kind of touch 9 on the second bullet here again. The NACEPT 10 Council was very adamant that we have to stop 11 looking at water quality and water supply as if 12 they are two different issues. They are not. 13 They are two sides of the coin and they have to 14 be dealt with holistically, and I think that is 15 one of the strengths of New Jersey state plan is 16 that it does look at how we grow and how we grow 17 relative to the infrastructure, the water supply, 18 the water quality that is there. Frankly, it is 19 just a start. We need to go a lot further, but 20 I think the way New Jersey is starting to look at 21 watersheds and using the State plan to direct 22 growth, I think really does offer a lot of 23 promise. 24 We also had several recommendations 25 on biodiversity, land use and food. And I would GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 35 1 like to just touch on the third bullet and where 2 we were recommending that EPA develop a 3 comprehensive list of biodiversity indicators to 4 give us some sense of how healthy are we 5 ecologically. In the State of New Jersey, the 6 previous governor created and funded an 7 organization called the New Jersey Sustainable 8 State Institute. It is housed at NJIT and 9 Rutgers who share the management of it. They 10 have just hired an executive director, and their 11 responsibility is to continue the report that was 12 first published by New Jersey Future called 13 Living With the Future in Mind, and subsequently 14 followed up by the Department of Environmental 15 Protection with a booklet called Governing with 16 the Future in Mind. And this organization, I 17 think will be at the leadership, not just in the 18 State of New Jersey, but in the country in trying 19 to help develop indicators of not just ecological 20 health but all of the indicators of a sustainable 21 state, education, safety, anything that you can 22 think of as being representative of quality of 23 life, I think that will be looked at by the 24 Sustainable State Institute. 25 Just to throw in a little bit of a GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 36 1 plug for the Department of Environmental 2 Protection. One of the recommendations the 3 Council made was to expand domestic and 4 international efforts to identify and control 5 invasive species. Department of Environmental 6 Protection about two years ago put together a 7 Comparative Risk Task Force to try to come up 8 with a procedure to evaluate risks and draw some 9 comparison. It was very interesting that one of 10 the high level risks that that group saw in the 11 State of New Jersey was the growing problem with 12 invasive species. At one point I think we had 13 it on the list as a bigger risk to the state, the 14 state's economy and ecological health than 15 mercury in the air. I am not sure if it still 16 stayed that high but at one point in time, we 17 certainly did rank it very high. 18 Continuing with natural resources, 19 we had recommended the EPA sponsoring research on 20 the cost and benefit of higher density community 21 development, that relates back to the state plan 22 and encouraging of growing happening in centers. 23 I just, this next one just struck me 24 because I came on -- I arrived yesterday 25 afternoon from a week's trip in Holland where I GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 37 1 stood on the soil and looked up at the dike, 2 realizing that the ocean was several feet above 3 my head, and then I looked at this bullet this 4 morning and said well, if we are going to assess 5 the ecological and economic impacts of sea level 6 rise from global warming, maybe we need to worry 7 that it is at LBI; LBI is probably pretty close 8 to sea level. 9 Getting closer to the focus of your 10 meeting today, air programs, I began focus on -- 11 although let me touch on the first one since the 12 issue of indoor air was brought up, we 13 recommended to EPA that they continue with a 14 partnership that has been initiated called 15 Healthy Buildings, Healthy People. 16 The second bullet, Developing a 17 Total Human Exposure Approach to Air Emissions is 18 from multiple, diffuse sources. Similarly to 19 the issue in water, we really felt that we have 20 to stop just looking at air emissions from 21 industry, air emissions from transportation, air 22 emissions from a multitude of diverse and 23 unregulated and unmeasured and unmonitored 24 sources, and really look at what is the exposure 25 to the human element and that if we are going to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 38 1 do that, we really need a lot of new technical 2 innovations in modeling and monitoring, as you 3 suggest in the questions in the brochure for 4 today's meeting. 5 I saw another similarity in our 6 suggestion that EPA support R&D for advanced 7 transit systems, including commercial vehicles, 8 and in fact one of the things that we talked 9 about was off-road construction vehicles and the 10 need to get those emissions managed as well as we 11 have for our highway vehicles. Support research 12 on ultraclean coal technology. I hadn't 13 highlighted that, but as I look at it now, it 14 reminds that at NJIT, Stevens, Rutgers, we have 15 very well-qualified graduate programs and 16 scientists who could be focused on technology 17 development for clean coal. 18 I was in Vancouver British Columbia 19 a few weeks ago and several of the coal companies 20 in Canada were announcing a joint venture to 21 develop clean coal technology. We really put a 22 lot of stake on development of science and 23 technology frankly so much so that one of the EPA 24 reviewers who looked at our draft document 25 suggested that we were looking at pie in the sky. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 39 1 We thought about that and talked about that for e 2 quite a long time, and I think it is not pie in 3 the sky. There are a lot of science 4 developments, there are a lot of technological 5 developments that we are not taking advantage of 6 and can go a long way to solving problems. I am 7 not suggesting that we can solve all of our 8 problems with science and invention and 9 technology, but I think we don't really take as 10 much advantage of the opportunities as we could. 11 And again, there were a lot of 12 similarities in what we recommended to EPA such 13 as creating investment partnerships for energy 14 efficient technologies which, in our discussion 15 included environmentally friendly buildings and 16 promoting beneficial developments in 17 biotechnology and nanotechnology. 18 I will talk a couple minutes about 19 that. One of the specific questions that Joe 20 asked me to address, what is happening, what are 21 the leading edge things in industry that will 22 help reduce emissions and do those have some 23 opportunities for the public sector. Certainly 24 biotechnology and nanotechnology, I come from the 25 pharmaceutical industry, that is my background, I GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 40 1 know that when 20 years ago, 25 years ago when a 2 process came to me for manufacturing and I had to 3 evaluate the environmental impact, I was looking 4 at only a 40 or 50 step brutal force series of 5 chemical reactions to make the molecule that we 6 needed to make for the medical effect. Every 7 one of those steps had waste, byproduct, used 8 chemicals and then threw them away because you 9 really had only one way to get from all of these 10 building blocks up to the final molecule. There 11 is a new technology called nanotechnology, I 12 don't profess to be able to explain how it works, 13 I guess it is just too long since I got my 14 engineering degree, but I do know enough to know 15 that it will take away a lot of that force 16 requirement and allow molecular transformations 17 to take place with significantly more significant 18 operations. 19 If you look at the other side of 20 nanotechnology, it probably offers significant 21 opportunity to the public sector in treating 22 wastes, in being able to separate metals from 23 wastewater, for example, and as this technology 24 evolves in the industrial side, I think you will 25 see a lot of it trickle down to public sector GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 41 1 application. 2 We had a lot of discussion about 3 information management, again, it will be in the 4 overheads I want to show you; it is also in the 5 report which I urge you to take a look at on the 6 web page. Again, at the bottom here, we 7 recommended investing and incorporating 8 geospatial technologies into rule-making 9 regulatory compliance procedures. New Jersey 10 has been doing that for almost a decade now with 11 the GIS system which is effective in helping the 12 state. Remote sensing, watershed mapping, those 13 activities have been going on in New Jersey and 14 are part of the technologies that we recommended 15 to EPA. Economics in commerce, were there is 16 business there of environmental issues and we 17 felt that the way to deal with that is to look at 18 linking economics and commerce with environmental 19 protection. 20 One of the items in our brochure is 21 how could DEP help prevent 9/11 tragedies and be 22 prepared for dealing with them. That is one of 23 the recommendations that we made to EPA, we 24 didn't have any answers, we just felt that 25 September 11 was as big an environmental disaster GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 42 1 as it was a human disaster and that EPA does 2 need, the EPA needs to address the concerns, then 3 the Department of Environmental Protection does 4 as well. Cumulative risk assessments being 5 comparative onto the risk assessments being 6 worked on in New Jersey. 7 Providing international assistance 8 to prevent ecological and economic development 9 failures. I am not sure that that has any 10 direct application to New Jersey other than for 11 the export of the technology and knowledge in New 12 Jersey companies who do provide technologies to 13 developing countries. 14 Politics and social evolution. I 15 guess this is probably pretty close to home. We 16 really saw at NACEPT a shift in the balance, 17 maybe not so much the balance of power, but the 18 relationships between governments, levels of 19 government and the power, and we really felt that 20 EPA had several roles to fulfill, one to enhance 21 their own capacity to evaluate performance at the 22 state level, tribal level and the local level, as 23 well as an obligation to enhance the State 24 capacities to carry out their delegated programs. 25 And to appropriately reinstate Federal oversight GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 43 1 for distressed or failing state programs. We 2 had in the text of the document, a fair bit of 3 discussion about the evolution of power to the 4 states and to the state agencies, and while we 5 didn't come out and actually recommend it as a 6 bullet item, the suggestion was to EPA that power 7 should be delegated to the level at which it is 8 best and appropriately applied, and we suggested 9 that a lot of that could be at the state level. 10 We encouraged EPA to engage non-government 11 organizations and non-traditional stakeholders in 12 community- based approaches to environmental 13 protection. And to support U.S. participation 14 in global environmental initiatives. Support 15 ongoing U.S. participation in global 16 environmental initiatives conventions. 17 DR. MANGANELLI: In that first 18 bullet that you have there, non-traditional 19 stakeholders, a little more clarification, 20 community based approaches, this I think is very 21 important, and I would like to get a better 22 picture on what you mean by non-traditional 23 stakeholders. 24 MS. BOWERS: I think we 25 traditionally look at the people who sit in this GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 44 1 room who participate in public hearings and the 2 public regulatory process as the traditional 3 stakeholders and what we were urging was that EPA 4 would engage, would explicitly go out to engage 5 other non-governmental organizations, and maybe 6 go into the community to get stakeholders who may 7 not really have participated in the public 8 regulatory process at this kind of a level. 9 The last slide that I have is one 10 where I thought it would be worthwhile trying to 11 bring it home and talk about what it is that 12 might happen in this room or in this knowledge to 13 provide incentives that would help the kind of 14 innovations that we know we need to try to help 15 them happen. 16 I have to go back to my background 17 as an environmental manager and basically bring 18 to you a list of things that I saw as an 19 environmental manager that would have helped 20 promote innovations. The first is regulatory 21 clarity. People who have an obligation to comply 22 with rules need to be able to understands what 23 they mean. This is, frankly, I don't know if 24 Irwin and Ray would agree, but in the 40 years 25 that I have been dealing with environmental GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 45 1 regulations, they seem to get more complicated 2 and less clear as time goes on. The second is 3 that we need supportive and creative permitting 4 for innovations. And I will tell you that I 5 know of many cases where the DEP has been 6 supportive, has been creative, has helped 7 stimulate and encourage innovation in their 8 permitting programs. We need a lot more of 9 that, and we need it to be not just in Department 10 of Environmental Protection but all over the 11 country. 12 I think the last, where I have all 13 the sub-bullets is really very important. 14 Innovations has risk. Innovations, there is 15 always a potential that innovations will fail. 16 So if we are going to encourage innovations, we 17 are going to encourage innovations technologies 18 and approaches, we have to first of all, we are 19 going to need regulators with vision and 20 creativity to help us look at those 21 opportunities. We are going to need 22 administration to administration support. 23 Innovation does not happen on a four-year 24 election cycle, I am not pointing fingers to any 25 specific administration transfer. I have been GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 46 1 around for 40 years, long enough to have seen a 2 number of administrations transfer. It has been 3 a problem, and it is a disincentive to both the 4 regulator to stick his neck out and that a chance 5 on trying something new as it is to somebody who 6 needs a permit to take a chance on trying 7 something new. We need a public process for 8 evaluating that risk and deciding that the risk, 9 small or large, deciding that it is worthwhile. 10 I almost hesitate to put this down because the 11 model for evaluating public risk is Super Fund 12 which is not working very well, but we do need a 13 way to do that. 14 The last item is that we may need a 15 way to share the cost of innovations. There is 16 a cost of innovations, there is a cost of not 17 innovating. And we need to have this tied into 18 the public processes so that if we decide that we 19 will go ahead and take a chance on innovations, 20 the risk is shared. If we decide not to go 21 ahead with an innovative approach, we know that 22 costs that we are paying for that is shared. 23 And I think I probably well have 24 gone over my time limit, but there's a lot more 25 in this report, as I said, we spent well over an GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 47 1 hour with the EPA administrator going over the 2 recommendations. The report is on the EPA 3 website, that web address is not on the copy that 4 I have so if you want to copy it down, it is www 5 dot EPA dot Government slash OCEMPAGE slash 6 NACEPT dash page, dot HTM. 7 Good luck. I'd be happy to answer a 8 few essential questions, depending on how much 9 time the chairman will give me. 10 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: I will be happy 11 to offer you as much time as you want. I want 12 to say a special thanks to you, Dorothy, for 13 preparing this and coming here before our Council 14 and also a special note to Joe Spatola for having 15 the insight to reach out to you, thank you. Any 16 questions? 17 MR. PAPENBERG: You had mentioned 18 on your presentation about assessing the total 19 risk that a resident may be exposed to. You 20 have seen the cumulative exposure reports that 21 have come out recently, haven't you? 22 MRS. BOWERS: To tell you the truth, 23 I am retired and I stopped reading all those 24 reports. Yes, I am aware -- I am aware that 25 there is an emerging technology. I am not able GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 48 1 to comment on, you know, I don't have a few a 2 view on how good or bad they are. Frankly, the 3 Council did not have experts in this area either 4 and our recommendation was not so much that we 5 hand-picked any particular model or any 6 particular approach but that it is time for us to 7 find an appropriate approach. 8 MR. PAPENBERG: I thought it would 9 be interesting to get your feedback on the 10 reports that have come out from I believe the 11 EPA, specifically as it relates to New Jersey and 12 using the data from the Right to Know reporting 13 from industries as well as the data from 14 Automobile Use and things of that nature. 15 MRS. BOWERS: There is no question 16 there is a lot of information out there, and it 17 just by and large isn't available to us in the 18 most meaningful form. 19 MR. ZONIS: Dorothy, one of the 20 things I find troubling about the subject of 21 innovations is that we continue to reinvent the 22 wheel or try to reinvent the wheel. What 23 specifically comes to mind is cleaning up the 24 emissions resulting from the generation of 25 electric energy. I know that there were GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 49 1 hundreds of million dollars starting in the late 2 '60s and '70s and early '90s, both by private 3 funds, by the utilities and by grants from the 4 Department of Energy and from EPA in developing a 5 whole series of innovative processes for 6 controlling car pollution emissions from the 7 burning of coal and so on. And here we are in 8 the new millennium and seems to me that we are 9 starting all over again. I think that perhaps 10 the results of some of these projects were not 11 entirely satisfactory from an economic standpoint 12 and when the price of oil and gas dropped, these 13 were put on the shelf. But time after time 14 there have been relatively successful projects, 15 oil Shell operation out in Denver comes to mind 16 where a beautiful, stainless steel plant was 17 built and never once operated because of the 18 price of raw materials dropped. Did NACEPT ever 19 consider some way of trying to resurrect the past 20 or try to restore valid innovative techniques 21 that have been put on the shelf to active 22 consideration. I find that an area of 23 frustration. 24 MRS. BOWERS: I think we share the 25 same frustration, although I am not quite as GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 50 1 pessimistic as you are, and I can think of 2 cobaltic tar sands are being used and the 3 technology is, I think, effective. And so, you 4 know, frankly, I think there are technologies 5 that are before their time and they get put on 6 the shelves. And we did urge EPA to look at a 7 lot of development work that it has done and it 8 has sponsored and paid for in the past to see if 9 it still, if it could be made applicable now in a 10 time that is perhaps ready for it. But I think, 11 realistically, we will continue to reinvent the 12 wheel, I am afraid that is part of technology. 13 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Any other 14 questions from the Council. 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 17 much, that was enlightening, and we appreciate 18 you coming here and sharing with us and with the 19 folks in the audience here and the participants 20 here views that you have. Thank you. 21 I want to tick off a list of folks 22 that are scheduled to speak so you have a sense. 23 Next is Carlos Rodrigues. 24 Mr. Rodrigues. 25 MR. RODRIGUES: I am the Acting GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 51 1 Director of Office of State Planning/Smart Growth 2 and the Department of Community Affairs. Thank 3 you for inviting me here this morning to speak to 4 you on the theme of innovative solutions to clean 5 air. Really what I am here to do is to talk a 6 little bit about the New Jersey State Development 7 and Redevelopment Plan which is a document that 8 was in its latest version adopted by the State 9 Planning Commission in March of 2001. The State 10 Planning Commission is a board that has public 11 members and state agency representatives much 12 like this one, 17 members altogether. 13 Just sort of to give you a little 14 bit of background, New Jersey has had state 15 planning for a very long time, something that 16 most people don't realize. I think most people 17 think that state planning started here in 1995 18 with the passage of the State Planning Act and 19 the adoption in 1992 of the New Jersey State 20 Development and Redevelopment Plan but, in fact, 21 New Jersey's first State Plan was adopted in 22 1934. That's right. And we had a State Plan 23 in the '50s and another one in the '70s. And 24 many of the ideas that were contained in this 25 document from 1934 are still very, very much GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 52 1 current today, and we have sort of come full 2 term, if you will, in a number of areas. 3 But the idea, for example, that we 4 need to develop in compact forms that our land 5 development pattern is very important and that 6 the compact form needs places where people can 7 walk and bicycle and that are supportive of 8 transit is a very old idea, as you all now know, 9 because that's the way we built our communities 10 for hundreds of years. And so while we took a 11 detour and sort of forgot that basic principle of 12 developing communities, particularly in the 13 period after the Second World War, these ideas 14 were embodied in earlier planning documents that 15 we had. So the 1934 State Plan talks about air 16 quality in terms of the problems that existed at 17 the time which was mostly smoke stack pollution 18 that was focused mostly in urban areas. That 19 was the issue at the time. That is not so much 20 the issue that we have today. And the plan that 21 we adopted about a year ago talks about air 22 quality in a contemporary context, which still 23 has the pollution coming from stationary sources, 24 but also has pollution from mobile sources, 25 particularly from pollution, the State Plan's GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 53 1 focus on air resource while the State Plan does 2 have a series of policies and it has specifically 3 a set of policies on air resources that talk 4 about clean fields and clean technologies and all 5 of that, but the real promise of the State Plan 6 is not so much this sort of technological mix, 7 but it really is addressing the underlying cause 8 of the problems which are, in our opinion, the 9 pattern of development. The more dispersed we 10 develop, the more we rely on vehicles to get 11 around, the more air pollution we have from those 12 mobile sources. And so the Smart Growth approach 13 to this is dealing with the underlying problem to 14 the extent that we can. 15 Now, I think I know that both of the 16 earlier speakers talked about Smart Growth and 17 talked about the State Plan, and I am sure that 18 you are thinking that all of this was carefully 19 scripted and that we came in here with a 20 coordinated message. In fact, it wasn't. This 21 is not carefully scripted. But what you are 22 seeing is the fact that we are all sort of 23 talking about the same things is that there is 24 emerging, there seems to be emerging consensus 25 that these are very important things that we need GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 54 1 to address, and this is a consensus that is 2 coming from a broad range of perspectives and 3 backgrounds. So it is not just the planners 4 that are talking about this, but it is a whole 5 host of other people. 6 I should say that the science behind 7 this, the science behind the valuation of the 8 benefits from an air quality as well as other 9 perspectives have compact mixed use, traditional 10 type of land development versus what we might 11 call, for lack of a better word, sprawl, which is 12 a dispersed single use, low-density pattern of 13 the development. The science on that is spotty 14 and for people who like to have absolute, hard 15 science evidence in front of them before they 16 make a decision, I have to say that we are not 17 quite there yet, in those terms. But there is 18 enough anecdotal evidence and enough evidence 19 coming from empirical studies as well as modeling 20 exercises to suggest that there are, in fact, 21 significant benefits along a whole array of 22 factors to developing more compact, more 23 pedestrian and transit forms. For example, a 24 number of studies that were conducted recently by 25 the U.S. EPA, the natural resources with Defense GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 55 1 Council and others comparing similar 2 neighborhoods suggests that in traditional, 3 compact communities people are four times more 4 likely to walk for everyday trips than in sort of 5 typical suburban subdivision. That people in 6 compact communities may drive 50 to 60 percent 7 less miles and may, in fact, make up to 50 8 percent less vehicle trips. Now, all of this, 9 as you can imagine, translates significantly, 10 these differences in travel behavior will 11 translate into less greenhouse gas emissions, 12 improved air quality, et cetera. But, and here 13 is the thing with Smart Growth, it's not just 14 about air quality, it is about a whole host of 15 other issues. We are only just now beginning to 16 understand this. Getting people out of their 17 cars and on their feet is just as important, for 18 example, from a public health point of view as 19 from an air quality perspective. The M.D.s on 20 this Council will tell you better than I can that 21 we are seeing alarming rates of increase in the 22 rates of obesity nationally, and the Center for 23 Disease Control is doing the research that shows 24 a direct correlation between that and the pattern 25 of development that we live in. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 56 1 Now, this is particularly striking 2 with regards to children and, by the way, the New 3 Jersey Department of Health released a report in 4 the fall of last year that suggests that the 5 population of New Jersey is getting fat, similar 6 type of evidence. But this is particularly 7 striking with regards to kids. 8 Let me give you an example just a 9 few sort of facts from New Jersey to bring this 10 home. We have about 1.3 million kids in our 11 public school system in New Jersey and roughly 12 half of those are bused every day to and from 13 school by a fleet of over 20,000 school buses. 14 Countless others are driven to and from school by 15 their parents, their nannies, their neighbors, 16 whomever. 17 Now, as an aside, an interesting 18 aside now, we know because the State of New 19 Jersey subsidizes this type of travel behavior to 20 the tune of about $280 million a year. And so 21 there is a very, very good accounting of every 22 child and every school district that is on a 23 school bus. 24 The kids who are not part of the bus 25 population we know nothing about. We have GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 57 1 absolutely no idea how they get to and from 2 school, whether they walk, walk by themselves, if 3 they walk with their friends, if they walk with 4 their parents, we know absolutely nothing. The 5 data collection process that we have is entirely 6 focused and centered on vehicular trips. This 7 is the same situation that we have with regards 8 to any other kinds of trips. We know an awful 9 lot about every vehicle trip that is done in New 10 Jersey, we know nothing about trips that people 11 make on foot or on bicycle. So our own data 12 collection system sort of reflects this bias and 13 makes it very difficult for us to get our arms 14 around the part of travel that is not done 15 through cars. 16 But to get back to our example with 17 public school children. The rate of busing is 18 not equal among school districts. There are 19 obviously school districts that have much higher 20 rates of kids in school buses than others. And 21 this is directly correlated, I think, to the 22 underlying land development pattern. In 23 traditional communities where there are sidewalks 24 and where there is a sufficient density of 25 development and kids live relatively close to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 58 1 neighborhood schools, they will walk or bicycle 2 to school. And so you have less kids on buses. 3 More recent communities that are more dispersed 4 that have no sidewalks, that have no pedestrian 5 infrastructure or have spotty pedestrian 6 infrastructure, that have large streets, heavy 7 traffic that are dangerous to cross, kids will, 8 even when they live close enough to walk to 9 school, will not walk because it is not a 10 pleasant experience and parents are reluctant to 11 let them do that, it is dangerous. 12 So, the underlying sort of land 13 development pattern here has a tremendous 14 influence on the behavior, the travel behavior of 15 these kids. By the way, recent studies in 16 California are suggesting that the air quality 17 inside the school buses, because they are all 18 diesel-powered, is a problem inside the buses as 19 it is outside the buses. 20 So, the promise, if you will, or the 21 challenge of the State Plan is to make changes, 22 changes to the underlying land use pattern that 23 can give us back the types of communities where 24 people, not just school kids, everybody can walk 25 to school, to work, to shop, recreation, to civic GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 59 1 activities and to, you know, civic activities 2 like this meeting that we are at here today. 3 These types of changes are not changes that we 4 can achieve in the short term, it is not a 5 short-term vision. It took us 50 years to get 6 where we are now, it will take us a long time to 7 reverse this trend, but I think what you are 8 seeing is an emerging consensus that this is 9 something that we need to do, that we need to do 10 urgently. And in New Jersey, we are fortunate in 11 having the State Plan as a guiding framework that 12 will help us to achieve that goal. 13 Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Questions. 15 MR. McCARTY: One of the problems 16 you will have to address with the busing issue 17 for schools is with the Department of Education, 18 the requirements that they have for school 19 construction and the amount of space that they 20 require for a new school construction to kind of 21 preclude the neighborhood schools, and I think 22 there's going to have to be some work with that 23 agency to coordinate what you are trying to do. 24 MR. RODRIGUES: Yes, you are 25 absolutely right. There needs to be better GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 60 1 understanding by all state agencies of the 2 principles of Smart Growth, and we need to have 3 those principles then incorporated in the 4 agencies' procedures, in the rules and 5 regulations and the way they spend their money. 6 We have now what we didn't have 7 before which is a Smart Growth Policy Council, I 8 think Commissioner Campbell talked about that 9 earlier. That is the appropriate venue for 10 those issues to come out to be discussed, and to 11 be resolved. You are right. 12 The National Trust for Historic 13 Preservation released a publication called Why 14 Johnny Can't Walk to School. It shows how school 15 construction throughout the country is a very 16 important factor in fueling sprawl. 17 MR. ALI: It strikes me that we have 18 been hearing these things over the last 10 years 19 or so, Smart Growth, compact growth and cleaning 20 up everything, brown fields, talking about 21 hearing from the grapevine all common knowledge 22 that they are saying that they want to develop 23 the centers and they are counted and being in 24 more development, having more difficulty, air 25 pollution or traffic jams or congestion and GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 61 1 crimes and things like that. 2 If you go around the State, you will 3 find out, you don't have to go to Newark, you can 4 go to Camden, you will find out that you don't 5 have to do that, you can go right here, what is 6 the situation of the real estate here, go to 7 Hamilton Street and find a big development going 8 on, those are landmarks. Is there any state 9 policy or plan thinking about cleaning up the 10 downtowns altogether, having a trust corporation, 11 whatever, to have an inventory of all the houses 12 boarded up and give it to people coming from -- 13 people go to Gloucester County, they do not go to 14 Camden. What is the real problem behind it. 15 The policy is good, philosophy is good but people 16 are saying it doesn't work, how can we make it 17 work? 18 MR. RODRIGUES: Well, I have a 19 slightly more optimistic perspective on things. 20 It is working in bits and pieces, not everybody 21 but if we look carefully and if we monitor 22 carefully what is happening out there, I think 23 there are reasons for optimism. It hasn't 24 reached Carroll Street yet, Camden is a 25 particular thorny issue which will require some GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 62 1 very bold incentives which we may not have yet. 2 But I think we are seeing a renewed interest on 3 the part of both the development community and on 4 the part of the private marketplace for both 5 housing and jobs in returning to places that 6 would qualify as centers under the State Plan. 7 In other words, places that are compact, that 8 are mixed use where people can walk, of any size. 9 And the State Plan is not just about 10 the '70s, it has a hierarchy of centers that goes 11 from the larger cities like Newark and New 12 Brunswick and Trenton and Camden all the way down 13 to hamlets which are very small units, but they 14 all have certain things in common. 15 But I think that if you talk to the 16 real estate community, you will see that they've 17 sort of reached these conclusions on their own, 18 based on their own analysis of what is going on 19 out there and where the marketplace is going. 20 Many of the larger developers in New Jersey are 21 very busy scouting urban sites and are very busy 22 developing expertise in urban redevelopment and 23 it is not just the Hudson waterfront that is 24 coming back big time, but there are a lot of 25 older industrial towns that are past that, you GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 63 1 know, phase where you had hundreds and hundreds 2 of acres abandoned and sort of no interest to 3 anyone, but are very actively thriving, using the 4 redevelopment statutes that we have in New 5 Jersey, very active developing plans, shopping 6 around for redevelopers and moving ahead. 7 So, I am optimistic that it is 8 happening anyway. It is not happening at the 9 rate that we'd like to see it happen, but it is 10 certainly heads and shoulders above where we were 11 five years ago, for example. And you will see if 12 you look at the building, where building permits 13 are being issued, you will see that there's, for 14 the last five years or so, there's been a shift, 15 there continues to be a shift with more and more 16 building permits occurring in urban 17 municipalities or in municipalities that have 18 these traditional characteristics as opposed to 19 just happening in towns, you know, where this 20 stuff is being built in the middle of cornfields. 21 So there are reasons. I know we 22 have all been talking about this and hearing 23 about it for a long, long time, and things didn't 24 seem to be happening, but I think they are 25 happening now. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 64 1 MR. ALI: Do you have a crystal ball 2 in seeing in the future where there will be no 3 boarded houses n New Jersey? 4 MR. RODRIGUES: No. 5 MR. SPATOLA: Smart Growth requires 6 an integrated public transportation system in the 7 state, how do you see that being accomplished 8 here in New Jersey? 9 MR. RODRIGUES: Well, you know, New 10 Jersey is very fortunate in that it has a very 11 extensive rail network, very extensive. Some of 12 it has been abandoned. 13 MR. SPATOLA: A lot go to New York 14 or Philadelphia. 15 MR. RODRIGUES: That's true, and 16 that reflects the nature of this state which is 17 split between these two major metropolitan areas. 18 These two large poles of attraction. You are 19 right, and we can move people in and out of those 20 metropolitan areas relatively easily, although 21 those trains are very crowded these days. But 22 it is the areas that have developed in the last 23 50 years that were not very good at serving with 24 public transit. And the reason largely is that 25 the densities there do not support transit. So GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 65 1 it is a real problem. 2 Now, we also don't need to be stuck 3 on sort of the 19th Century times of transit, the 4 19th Century transit models, the spoke and hub 5 model. We have a more centralized pattern of 6 development, and we need much more flexible 7 approach to transit that demand smaller vehicles, 8 and I think that is an area that we need to 9 explore and that is an area where technology can 10 help us. New Jersey Transit is largely -- has 11 been largely focused on the rail and sort of 12 conventional bus operations. Then we have a 13 whole series of other types of transit that are 14 mostly run by TMA's which are local, you know, 15 county based organizations. I think there's 16 considerable promise for those types of more 17 flexible approaches to expand transit out into 18 areas that are already developed but don't have 19 the underlying density to support the more 20 traditional type of transit. 21 MR. EGENTON: Carlos, one 22 consideration when you are very interested in 23 your assessment of the children being bused to 24 school, I have a son and daughter and I am in 25 that dilemma. I think one of the issues you GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 66 1 need to also take a look at and address are 2 certain basic quality of life issues. I know 3 as a parent there is an issue of safety, we don't 4 live in the "Leave it to Beaver" world anymore 5 where back in the '70s when I walked to school, 6 my mother never had to fear for me on coming home 7 and making sure a predator or God knows, your 8 next-door-neighbor who you thought you trusted, 9 those are real life issues, and I bring it home 10 to you. And I talk to a lot of parents and they 11 are concerned about that. 12 And although I agree with you, and I 13 see the congestion of parents bringing their kids 14 to school vis-a-vis their cars. I am under the 15 two-mile limit close to school but obviously I 16 don't want my 7-year-old daughter walking to 17 school, out of fear there is a certain area where 18 she walks where there is no crossing guard, there 19 is no police protection. 20 So, I think times have changed too, 21 and I think until we address basic quality of 22 life security issues, you are going to have 23 situations like that. 24 MR. RODRIGUES: Yes, it is not an 25 easy thing to fix from a number of different GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 67 1 perspectives. I actually trust my neighbors, so 2 I am not expecting them to do anything weird. 3 But, yes, security is an issue, you 4 know, so in many places or in some places you do 5 have the infrastructure, the kids are close 6 enough to schools to walk, but there are safety 7 concerns that need to be addressed and those 8 can't be forgotten, they need to be looked at, 9 too. 10 I think what we need to do is get, 11 in this particular case, I don't mean to be 12 picking on schools, but I think it is a very 13 compelling sort of case study, I think what we 14 need to do is get school boards and planning 15 boards and municipal government and the 16 Department of Education focusing on the issue, 17 which they are not now. Most school boards are 18 not focusing on this issue. Planning, because 19 they think it is a planning board issue, planning 20 boards think it is a school board issue, 21 everybody thinks it is someone else's concern and 22 it's sort of lost in the shuffle. 23 I think what we need to do is get 24 people focused on the issue and then develop the 25 approaches and approaches will differ from GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 68 1 community to community, depending on the 2 situations, from neighborhood to neighborhood. 3 In some places you have parents groups that 4 organized parents groups, that walk their kids to 5 school so every day you have a different parent 6 whose job it is to take, you know, half a dozen 7 kids from that block, walk them to school, walk 8 back, and that gives them the sense of, you know, 9 comfort, the margin of comfort that they need 10 because they are there for the predators, they 11 are there for the traffic, they are there for all 12 of those things. That is one approach. And we 13 need to -- people are doing that on their own 14 because they feel that they should, we need to 15 pick up on those models, make them better known 16 and, in turn, provide incentives. 17 MR. EGENTON: I agree with you on 18 the air pollutions aspect. At our school, you 19 can see well over 100 cars sitting there idling 20 and you have to have better coordinated effort 21 and those models may be the type of models we 22 have to look at so maybe we can cut down on the 23 vehicles travelling to the schools, I agree. 24 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 25 much. That is enlightening. I think we are GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 69 1 kind of seeing a theme here, something about 2 Smart Growth. 3 Next is Frank Sherman. 4 MR. SHERMAN: Good morning. My name 5 is Frank Sherman, and I work for Hillier which is 6 an architectural firm located up in Princeton, 7 New Jersey. I would like to speak towards some 8 of the issues of innovative solutions for clean 9 air. I would like to start off by first thanking 10 Dorothy Bowers for a great report, and I have 11 used the NACEPT report as a springboard for the 12 ideas that I would like to talk about today. 13 I would like to start off with a 14 quote from a NACEPT report and that is that, 15 "Poor environmental quality is already estimated 16 to be directly responsible for about 25 percent 17 of all preventable ill health in the world today, 18 with diarrhea and acute respiratory infections 19 heading the list." Clearly, the quality of our 20 environment has a direct affect on our health and 21 well-being. More than 17 million Americans 22 suffer from asthma and respiratory illnesses, and 23 4.8 million of them are children. 24 One of the arguments I would like to 25 make is that economic and environmental GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 70 1 well-being are ultimately inseparable. Even as 2 we move away from a manufacturing economy towards 3 information and service, our economic enterprises 4 are still based on making things and using 5 natural resources. Our economic strength is 6 tied to our command over and wise use of these 7 resources. When our natural resources are 8 poorly managed and wasted, we see the evidence in 9 the form of pollution and a degraded 10 environment. One of the things I would like to 11 put forth is that the future economic health of 12 the State of New Jersey is dependent in no small 13 measure upon strategies that promote a healthy 14 environment through pollution prevention, wise 15 resource use and sustainable development. Also 16 I'd like to thank the State Plan for lifting some 17 images out of their report last night. 18 Sustainable development is the use of natural 19 resources in a way that meets our needs today 20 without depleting those resources and without 21 hindering the ability of future generations to 22 meet their needs. To be able to use to meet our 23 needs today without hindering the ability of 24 future generations to meet their needs. That is 25 one of the cores of sustainable development. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 71 1 Ultimately the goal would be in this state to be 2 able to work in grand balance now and for many 3 years to come. The not so simple challenge for 4 the State of New Jersey is to promote sustainable 5 development on a macro level, while fostering 6 regional economic development and a healthy 7 diverse economy. 8 Well, so what does this have to do 9 with clean air and buildings? Some statistics 10 here. Commercial buildings in the U.S., they 11 consume more than 36 percent of all the primary 12 energy usage, 65 percent of the total U.S. 13 electricity consumption. 30 percent of the 14 total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions are created 15 by commercial buildings. We create 136 million 16 tons of construction and demolition waste. We 17 use 12 percent of all potable water in the U.S. 18 and 40 percent of the raw materials used 19 globally. This consumption of waste creates 20 waste in the form of solid waste and 21 contamination of our water and air. The concept 22 of waste to me is intriguing. We don't seem to 23 worry about waste when we have an excess of 24 resources to use. But we begin to worry about 25 waste issues when we see those resources being GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 72 1 depleted or compromised in some way. 2 Nature, on the other hand, looks at 3 waste differently. The model of nature is that 4 waste equals food. Waste produced by one 5 organism or process becomes the feedstock for 6 another organism or process. Eloquently simple. 7 The beauty of nature is the fact that it can take 8 incredibly complex diverse actions and express 9 them in simple, beautiful ways and if we, in our 10 actions, and in our technology can duplicate 11 nature, then we have gone a long way of creating 12 sustainable development in the state and in the 13 world in general. But in nature nothing is 14 wasted, and the cycle of foot to waste to food is 15 closed and infinitely works. Ultimately, as 16 architects, designers, planners,inventors and 17 manufacturers, we need to eliminate the concept 18 of waste and treat pollution is a design failure. 19 Emissions should be regarded as unsalable 20 products. If you can't sell it, you shouldn't 21 produce it and you should design it out of the 22 process. 23 Energy efficiency and conservation 24 are actually two effective ways that we can 25 reduce waste in the form of air pollution or in GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 73 1 the production of greenhouse gases. This waste 2 is produced by the design and operation of 3 buildings, by automobiles and by industrial 4 processes. Reduction in the amount of pollution 5 going into the environment from the production 6 and consumption of energy is one of the goals of 7 the NACEPT report. 8 The strategy they recommended to 9 achieve this is to: Move away from carbon based 10 energy sources toward renewable sources; to 11 reduce the amount of carbon-based fuel sources we 12 use through advances in technology and improved 13 efficiency and focus on the cleanest carbon fuel 14 sources for our current needs. 15 We have the ability to reduce the 16 demand for carbon-based energy by designing more 17 energy efficient buildings and systems, by using 18 alternative energy sources, by reducing the 19 overall amount of energy that we use on a 20 day-to-day basis and also able to design 21 buildings that use less materials and resources, 22 that re-use -- that are less -- that we can use 23 materials that are less energy intensive to 24 extract and produce, and we can use local and 25 regional materials that reduce pollution GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 74 1 generated in transportation and handling. We 2 also need to design buildings with a sensitivity 3 toward climate, site and region. Building 4 strategies that are suited to the Northeast are 5 not very often strategies for buildings that are 6 in the Southeastern United States. Very often 7 buildings do not acknowledge issues such as heat, 8 sunlight, cold, humidity, wind and orientation 9 and these ultimately are less efficient, use more 10 energy to compensate for their flaws, and 11 contribute to a more polluted and less healthful 12 environment. 13 Actually, there is another aspect to 14 air quality and the built environment and that is 15 indoor air quality. 16 To quote the EPA report "Healthy 17 Buildings, Healthy People: A Vision for the 21st 18 Century": 19 "From the perspective of human 20 health, indoor air quality may well pose the 21 greatest environmental risk." 22 It is estimated that the average 23 American spends 90 percent of their time indoors 24 with a good portion of that in a working 25 environment. Health and well-being play a large GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 75 1 role in our ability to work, learn and in our 2 overall productivity. Currently, one of the 3 most effective ways of improving air quality in 4 commercial and public buildings in this country 5 is through the use and promotion of the U.S. 6 Green Building Council's "LEED Green Building 7 Rating System," and I will tell you about that. 8 First I will tell you about Green 9 Building Council is a national nonprofit 10 organization based in Washington D.C., made up of 11 a diverse member of organizations, it is 12 consensus driven and committee based, in its 13 approach to product development and developer and 14 administrator of the LEED Green Building Rating 15 System. LEED stands for Leadership in Energy 16 and Environmental Design. It is the measurement 17 system designed to measure new and commercial 18 institutions and high-rise residential buildings 19 and based on accepted energy and environmental 20 principles and strikes a balance between known 21 effective practices and emerging concepts. 22 What I will say is that it is not 23 all about new technology, we very often forget 24 traditional wisdom, and there are simple things 25 that you can do as well as enhance strategies GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 76 1 through innovative Technology. 2 LEED is organized into five 3 environmental categories, they look at 4 sustainable sites, water efficiency, energy and 5 atmosphere, materials and resources and indoor 6 environmental quality. 7 One of the things I also want to 8 stress about LEED, LEED really promotes an 9 integrated approach to design green and high 10 performance buildings. They acknowledge that no 11 issue is stand-alone, every issue has a direct 12 impact and can work synergistically with 13 solutions and other issues in designing a 14 building or effecting an environment. 15 One of the things that you were 16 seeing in terms of Smart Growth and State 17 Planning is the complexity and the interactions 18 between different needs and issues. One of the 19 beauties of a sustainable design approach is that 20 you can, in a way throughout approach, begin to 21 actually have solution multipliers where a 22 solution can lead you to be able to address 23 positively a number of different issues and be 24 able to effect positive change on a number of 25 different levels. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 77 1 With the exception of water 2 efficiency, each of the categories up here 3 actually has a direct effect on air quality. 4 Were you to choose site a buildings, how you use 5 site strategies can affect pollution quality of 6 air. Clearly energy and atmosphere, the kind of 7 energy you use and the strategies used to design 8 the building will affect both the quality of the 9 air, the amount of energy that it takes to run 10 that building, the amount of pollution that 11 building will generate, materials and resources 12 chosen obviously will also help reduce pollution 13 through manufacture and transportation or 14 extraction and processing, but also many 15 materials in and of themselves contribute 16 directly to poor indoor air quality, health and 17 we will also look the issues such as that. 18 Improving indoor air quality through the careful 19 design and specification knowledge is achievable 20 and quiet necessary. 21 The EPA report, "Healthy Buildings, 22 Healthy People" identifies major indoor human 23 health risks that include asthma, cancer, 24 reproductive and developmental problems among 25 other health effects. These come from the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 78 1 exposure to radon, environmental tobacco smoke, 2 carbon monoxide, lead, chemical and biological 3 contaminants, all of those can be readily found 4 in buildings. 5 Chemical pollutants includes 6 Volatile Organic Compounds, VOCs. Organic 7 compounds are chemicals that essentially contain 8 carbon. Volatile organic compounds vaporize at 9 room temperature and pressure and become 10 airborne. That is basically one of the primary 11 ways we are getting exposed. They are found in 12 many indoor sources, including many common 13 household products and building materials. 14 Chemical pollutants include chlorinated solvents, 15 formaldehyde, heavy metals, pesticides and ground 16 level ozone among others. I won't profess to be 17 a chemist but all that stuff is out there. 18 Biological contaminants are also 19 more and more of a concern, this includes molds, 20 spores, fungi and bacteria. Very often we see 21 these as the base causes of Sick Building 22 Syndrome. Reducing the risk of indoor 23 contaminant exposure is readily achievable by 24 specifying low or no VOC paint, adhesives and 25 sealants and products that do not off-gas GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 79 1 chemicals. 2 The EPA report noted, "A number of 3 studies over the past decade tracked where people 4 actually experience the largest exposures to 5 different toxic chemicals. In a great majority 6 of cases, these exposures occur inside buildings. 7 While regulations have focused on emissions into 8 the outside environment, exposures are occurring 9 primarily in indoor environments. The exposure 10 comes from off gassing from carpets and 11 furniture, sunlight falling on plastics and other 12 materials, construction products, cleaning 13 products, office machines, mildew and molds, and 14 a variety of other sources." Condensation and 15 wet humid atmospheres contribute to the growth of 16 mold and fungi, often in walls and ventilation 17 systems. Improved construction techniques, 18 better mechanical system design, increased 19 ventilation and decreased air re-circulation all 20 contribute to the reduction of airborne 21 contaminants. 22 In all of these areas, LEED requires 23 very high levels of building design and 24 performance with a focus on creating superior 25 Indoor Air Quality and overall Indoor GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 80 1 Environmental Quality. 2 LEED actually has become a national 3 benchmark standard for the evaluation of green 4 and high performance buildings throughout the 5 country. Federal, state and regional 6 governments have adopted LEED as the performance 7 standard for new construction and renovation. 8 To list just a few of the organizations that use 9 LEED as both an incentive tool and performance 10 base tool for construction, the Department of 11 Defense; Department of Interior; the 12 Environmental Protection Agency; the National 13 Park Service; the GSA; the State of Pennsylvania; 14 City of Portland; City of Austin, Texas, and 15 Arlington County, Virginia. This is a standard 16 that is being studied and embraced on many 17 governmental levels as a way, as an incentive to 18 create better buildings, higher performance 19 buildings, and as a way to create a better built 20 environment. 21 I think that what I would like to do 22 is, I think my primary recommendation here today 23 to the Governor and to the State of New Jersey is 24 that they seriously study and consider adopting 25 the LEED Green Building Rating System as the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 81 1 performance standard for all State funded Public 2 Building projects, and use LEED as an incentive 3 for private development and also use it as an 4 incentive for private development at all levels 5 throughout the State. 6 The one thing I will say is that the 7 school work coming through the district is 8 actually in the process of looking at LEED as a 9 performance standard to create better, healthier 10 and higher performing school buildings. 11 Ultimately, this is going to give you the ability 12 to better use state government funds in building 13 schools. 14 With that, I will take any 15 questions. 16 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 17 much, I was completely unaware that anything like 18 LEED existed. 19 DR. MANGANELLI: You made a very 20 good case for the indoor air quality, I 21 appreciate that. You talked about sustainable 22 development and gave a very nice definition of 23 that. 24 What my concern here is this; as you 25 all know in New Jersey we have 8,000 square miles GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 82 1 and in the short time we will have another 2 million people added to that. I would like to 3 superimpose upon this increase of population 4 density, this idea of sustainable development as 5 you defined it. Are there any incentives here 6 that we can keep this density down? I realize 7 that there's other problems that were brought up 8 where you have a certain amount of density to 9 have a better rail system; however, if we just 10 keep going this way, a lot of this idea of the 11 use of the natural resources and sustainable 12 development, this won't work out. I'd like to 13 hear your answer. 14 MR. SHERMAN: One of the real 15 goals of sustainable developments is that you 16 assess your conditions and resources and make 17 wise and informed decisions about how best to use 18 those resources. I think realistically the 19 State of New Jersey will always continue to grow, 20 continue to develop. Can it develop in a way 21 that balances its resource use against its 22 resource inventory? There are many different 23 ways that that's going to have to be tackled, and 24 on many different levels and one of the 25 challenges of sustainable development is GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 83 1 understanding from a holistic point of view what 2 all of those issues be, what is the web of the 3 interrelationship of those issues, and I think we 4 are beginning to address some of them, but you 5 can see there's some kind of disparate parts and 6 pieces. The new urbanist movement for 7 traditional towns and implicitly certain aspects 8 of sustainable development, focusing development 9 in areas where readily none of this is available 10 for open space, also to Smart Growth planning, I 11 guess I also want to say using the resources that 12 we have, both intellectual and financial, are 13 also key parts of total sustainable development. 14 I think that one of the ideas is 15 that we have to respect the fact that we are 16 going to have population increases, that we need 17 to create certain levels of densities as a way to 18 produce the resources that we have in terms of 19 land, water and air. But we need to do that 20 with the knowledge that the cost and benefits 21 that have to be shared by everybody, and that is 22 the other part, the other part of this, when are 23 you are talking about sustainable development on 24 a regional level like the State, everybody really 25 has to participate entering that discussion and GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 84 1 everybody needs to be working towards similar 2 goals. 3 MR. McCARTY: The gentleman previous 4 to you spoke about the State Plan and 5 consolidation and trying to group everything, you 6 are talking about smarter buildings, Dorothy 7 Bowers talked about innovations and the 8 Commissioner talked about how to integrate all 9 these different things. My question would be 10 right now we have brown fields, do we not need 11 innovations and how to address the brown fields 12 and the clean-up of them to revitalize the inner 13 cities to cut down on the transportation. 14 And since you are an architect, is 15 there any way that that can go into the 16 engineering end of the construction of the 17 buildings so all that can be integrated together 18 to actually make some of the things that have 19 been discussed work? 20 MR. SHERMAN: I think the short 21 answer is yes because there are clearly 22 engineering and environmental technologies out 23 there that are advancing quickly to deal with 24 brown field redevelopment. I would still argue 25 as an architect that regulatory issues need as GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 85 1 much innovations as actual building and even with 2 engineering issues. 3 MR. McCARTY: That's what I was 4 referring to. 5 MR. SHERMAN: One of the things that 6 the LEED Building System looks at and promotes is 7 sensible growth, reuse of resources, the idea of 8 reduce, reuse, recycle as the tenets underlying a 9 lot of good, sustainable development can be 10 applied at many levels. When you look at 11 degraded sites, you really need to study not only 12 the kind of technology and the chemistry and the 13 history of why those sites, what they are, you 14 can find technological and engineering solutions 15 to overcome those. 16 From a planning point of view, from 17 let's say a municipal government point of view, 18 what you also have to be doing is looking at the 19 issue of how to best use resources such as 20 degraded sites to bring them up to a useful 21 state, and then find the appropriate actual 22 knowledge and planning solutions that best use 23 those resources, those degraded sites. Some of 24 them are potentially quite valuable but are being 25 hindered by obvious detriment to them. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 86 1 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: One last 2 question. 3 MR. ZONIS: On a technical side, 4 Mr. Sherman, the Council has learned in recent 5 years about how the tenancy had been to design 6 and build buildings with a minimum amount of 7 leakage of air and as your EPA points out, has 8 led to higher levels of EPA air ventilation. How 9 does that conflict with improved fuel efficiency? 10 How do you solve both of those, reduce the amount 11 of carbon-based fuel and at the same time 12 increase ventilation. 13 MR. SHERMAN: The reason that 14 buildings become tighter based on the last energy 15 crisis was the idea if buildings were tighter and 16 we kept recirculating the air we didn't have to 17 continue to heat or cool it and with blinders we 18 solve one problem pretty well and reduce the 19 amount of energy that we have to use. The 20 better way of looking at buildings, buildings are 21 actually very permeable, and they ideally when 22 they are designed, really do live and breathe in 23 many respects and a building does need to breathe 24 or does need permeable fresh air and there are 25 ways, technology is out there now that can GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 87 1 efficiently deliver heating and cooling at 2 minimal kinds of energy uses or using cleaner 3 energy technologies. And there are ways to 4 capture waste heat and there are more nd more 5 technologies out there that can capture waste 6 leaving the building and transport that to 7 incoming air. So you can actually get the best 8 of both worlds. 9 MR. ZONIS: Does the LEED program 10 include the factors that you mentioned? 11 MR. SHERMAN: Absolutely. LEED is 12 based on a series of technical and regulatory 13 standards which they are referenced. One of the 14 things about the LEED program, they have created 15 higher baseline standards for building 16 performances than codes through many of the 17 states actually currently require. So they are 18 looking at current codes for energy performance 19 that are at a fairly high level although I am 20 happy to say that the State of New Jersey has 21 adopted the energy standard that LEED uses as 22 their baseline. What LEED does is say that is 23 your baseline, a minimal of 20 percent if you 24 want recognition, a minimal of 20 percent. They 25 have recommendations for ventilation GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 88 1 effectiveness, carbon monoxide levels within 2 buildings, so there are ways that LEED 3 identifies, addresses issues. 4 LEED is a design methodology that is 5 quite nice. It also gives you ideas, gives you 6 solutions, shows you what potential scenarios 7 are, shows you what the potential trade-offs are 8 and helps you find the appropriate solution to 9 your problem. 10 As much as buildings look alike, no 11 buildings are alike when it comes to solving 12 design problems. 13 MR. ZONIS: The Green Building 14 Council that you mentioned, is it their intention 15 to issue updates and state-of-the-art kind of 16 things as years go by and people come up with 17 these? 18 MR. SHERMAN: Yes. The reason the 19 Green Buildings created the LEED is to transform 20 the marketplace, to raise standards, to build 21 better buildings across the country. Currently, 22 LEED is at a version of 2.0, the second release, 23 they are working on 3.0, as more buildings come 24 on line that are high performance that are green 25 and sustainable and technologies are continuing GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 89 1 to be improved, U.S. Green Building Council is 2 continuing to raise the bar and saying we want 3 better, we want more innovative buildings that we 4 can prove on a national level that these 5 buildings are economically and technologically 6 viable and now we are going to continue to push 7 the envelope. LEED is a continuing evolving 8 rating system, and the nice thing is U.S. Green 9 Building Council is essentially made up of very 10 diverse groups, it's not a regulatory agency, it 11 is totally a consensus driven organization made 12 up of manufacturers, made up of government 13 manufacturers, private industry, public industry 14 and so the consensus of where they are going is 15 very strong and very careful. 16 DR. BIELORY: A quick question. 17 Everything in there is nice and dandy, what is 18 the impact of the health when I hear all this, 19 quite honestly, the more, the tighter the 20 building, the higher the health issues as well. 21 I know the breathability of the building has 22 increased, but the only way you open a building 23 now is throwing a brick through the window. 24 That solves energy issues as well, but on the 25 other hand, regarding health and exposure, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 90 1 allergies. I don't hear a health factor in the 2 LEED's assessment. 3 MR. SHERMAN: I will say that LEED 4 doesn't directly address human health factors. 5 DR. BIELORY: You have a healthy 6 building but I am not sure about the individuals 7 working in the building. 8 MR. SHERMAN: One of the positions 9 of LEED is that a building that has superior 10 indoor lighting quality, air quality is creating 11 a healthy, more productive place to work. Those 12 kinds of studies, the studies of productivity of 13 worker decreased absenteeism, those things are 14 actually currently in the process because it's 15 only been within the past six or seven years that 16 a lot of these buildings have come on line. But 17 there are studies out there, they are activity 18 being done that are looking at specific 19 cost/benefit issues to companies in terms of 20 overall productivity, reduced absenteeism, 21 reduced liability, and a lot of the bottom line 22 issues, at least from an economic point of view 23 that affect worker well-being in the workplace. 24 MR. BAKER: My name is Bill Baker. 25 I am with the EPA in New York. What I am going GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 91 1 to talk about is a little different, I am going 2 to talk about EPA approaches to innovations 3 specifically in its air programs. My remarks 4 are generally divided into two types, I am going 5 to talk about innovations in general, and then I 6 will cite specific examples of innovative 7 programs that we are employing in EPA. 8 My first slide gets into the former, 9 "Why Innovations," and I have a number of reasons 10 which I will get to in a second. 11 Yesterday, I was reading something 12 and I came up with another reason for innovations 13 which applies directly to a regulatory agency and 14 it is a quote from a man named Allen Watts who, I 15 have to admit, I have not heard of in a book or 16 paper, the quote is that: Government which is 17 run extensively for the good of the people is a 18 self-serving corporation. To keep things under 19 control, it proliferates laws of ever increasing 20 complexity and ever indelagatibility and hinders 21 productive work by demanding so much accounting 22 on paper that the record of what has been done 23 becomes more important than what actually has 24 been done. 25 And I can't think of a better reason GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 92 1 for innovations than that. I don't know if that 2 is true but to the extent that it is true, I 3 think it is a good reason for innovations. 4 "Why Innovation"? One reason is 5 the changing nature of the economy, things are 6 happening a lot more rapidly now than they used 7 to in the economy, and industry needs the ability 8 to implement things on a rapid basis. They need 9 the ability to change product lines quickly and 10 sometimes to even change the product if they are 11 manufacturing quickly. And if they have to wait 12 for government to catch up, then it slows down 13 the economy. 14 One of the things that the 15 Commissioner alluded to this morning is the fact 16 that there are scarce resources, and this is 17 true, there are scarce resources in government 18 and getting scarcer. We need to use the 19 resources that we have more efficiently. When 20 you have government involved in the 21 decision-making, that again requires resources 22 for that involvement. So, to the extent that you 23 can provide flexibility as government officials, 24 that is the extent that you have to use lesser 25 resources in order to manage the program. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 93 1 We have a new understanding of the 2 environmental problems that we have. I think we 3 found out that we have a bigger job to do and it 4 is a more complicated job, and in order to do 5 this job, it is going to require creativity, in 6 other words, creativity is innovation. 7 We also have an obligation to get 8 the most results at the least cost, and that is 9 certainly true of the private sector, but also 10 true of government. Again, it comes back to 11 doing things more efficiently and more 12 effectively. I guess the bottom line of why we 13 are interested in innovations is that the current 14 system will not and maybe did not achieve the 15 results that we wanted. While we did achieve 16 results, we didn't completely achieve those 17 results. For example, some of the problems that 18 we identified back in 1970 are still with us. 19 We can't keep doing things in the same way that 20 we have been doing them. We have to try to do 21 them in new and innovative ways. 22 "What Is Innovation." Here is one 23 definition: An aptitude where you view your job 24 as a problem-solver and not just as a program 25 implementor. This goes back to the Allen GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 94 1 Watts's quote that I started with, that was a 2 quote of a government that was made up of program 3 implementors and not problem-solvers. 4 Ways of being innovator is trying to 5 use the best tool to solve the problem, to 6 constantly improve the tools that you have, to 7 invent new tools where the old ones aren't 8 working. And also, and this was alluded to by 9 someone earlier, being willing to take 10 intelligent risks. We're trying to do this at 11 EPA and in a number of ways; one way we are doing 12 the air program is we are citing examples that we 13 find not only in the air but other media within 14 EPA of innovative thinking to bring this forth to 15 the staff. And in addition, we are developing 16 and putting on workshops, again, you try to 17 develop the ability to think innovatively and the 18 staff people, the people that are actually doing 19 the work in the agency. 20 Now, I'm going to run through some 21 examples of innovative programs that are in 22 existence. I have 11 examples, and I am not 23 going to go through all of them in detail but 24 they break down into four categories, Market 25 Based Regulation, Partnership Programs, Voluntary GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 95 1 Programs and Information Based Programs. 2 I guess the prime example of a 3 market based program which some of you may be 4 familiar with is the acid rain program, this was 5 a program mandated by the '99 Clean Air Act and 6 became the model for these type of market based 7 programs. What it did was set a goal for 8 reducing the precursors to precipitation, 9 nitrogen dioxides and allocated the reductions 10 among the large emitters and each year they are 11 given a certain amount of credit that was set as 12 a baseline, and if they go over that credit, they 13 have to buy, as a commodity from someone else and 14 if they actually come in under their target, they 15 can sell. And each year there is a summing up 16 to make sure that the target was reached. So a 17 lot of programs have been modeled on that. 18 One program is the stratospheric 19 ozone program. This was a program that was 20 mandated by the 1990 Clean Air Act, it was a 21 program to phase out chloroformic carbons by the 22 year 1996 and each manufacturer in this program 23 was given a target for the phase-out while it was 24 allowed, again like the acid rain, to trade with 25 other manufacturers. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 96 1 What is interesting, and it is an 2 example of why these innovative programs can be 3 economical, in 1990, Clean Air Act was being 4 developed, an estimate was made as to what it 5 would cost to implement this type of revision, 6 and what they looked at was a 50 percent 7 reduction in chloroformic carbons from a certain 8 base and they were looking for that reduction to 9 occur by 1998, 50 percent by 1998. What they 10 estimated was that it would cost $3.05 per 11 kilogram of CFC reduced. Now contrast that with 12 what the actual cost of the program was and here 13 we are actually looking at 100 percent reduction, 14 twice the reduction than in the first estimate 15 and it occurred two years earlier, in 1996. But 16 yet, the cost came in at $2.45 per kilogram 17 reduced, contrasted to $3.05 which was estimated. 18 So quite a bit cheaper, got more reduction and 19 got it sooner. 20 I am going to talk about 21 "Partnership Programs." An example here that I 22 choose to speak about is the Ozone Transport 23 Assessment Group, I take it some of you may have 24 heard of this. This was a consortium of states, 25 EPA, industry academics and non-governmental GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 97 1 organizations that was formed in 1995 to examine 2 the ozone question. There were actually 37 3 states involved in this and it was the states, 4 all the states east of the Mississippi, and the 5 idea was to try to understand the ozone program 6 better to come up with a common understanding of 7 the program. I believe this group met from 1995 8 through 1997, and I think most people think that 9 actually it was quite successful. Actually, one 10 of the things that it led to was something that 11 was issued by EPA, which was a directive to the 12 states that were contributing to the ozone 13 problem, particularly the ozone problem in the 14 Northeast to reduce their emissions to a set 15 level. 16 The main thing was that the people 17 that participated in this, and particularly the 18 states, came out with appreciation for the fact, 19 the nature of the ozone problem, and the fact 20 that it is a national problem and it wasn't just 21 a local problem and the fact that states quite a 22 distance from the place that we were measuring 23 problems were actually contributing to them. 24 "Voluntary Programs." There are a 25 number of things, one is that is important to New GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 98 1 Jersey, the Radon Program, we talked a lot about 2 indoor air quality and this is a big indoor air 3 quality problem in New Jersey. It is a 4 voluntary program and one that encourages 5 homeowners to have their home tested for radon 6 and where a radon problem is found, to take 7 immediate action in their home to get rid of the 8 problem. 9 New Jersey, as many of you know, New 10 Jersey has a lot of areas that are subject to 11 this type of problem and it's been quite 12 successful. I know that problem areas in New 13 Jersey, 50 percent of the homes have been tested, 14 and that's remarkable if you think about it for a 15 voluntary program. 16 Another one I want to talk about 17 which has actually been alluded to earlier is the 18 EnergyStar Program. This is a voluntary program 19 which offers businesses and consumers 20 energy-efficient solutions, and these solutions 21 not only save money, but they obviously also 22 protect the environment by producing more 23 energy-efficient goods. And this EnergyStar 24 Program has gotten to a lot of the commercial 25 sector and you probably notice the EnergyStar GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 99 1 label on a lot of things you buy, now covers new 2 homes, residential heating and cooling equipment, 3 major appliances, office equipment, lighting, 4 consumer electronics and most of the building 5 sector. 6 These are examples of "Information 7 Based Programs." AIRNOW provides air quality 8 information. Sunwise provides information to the 9 HUB UV radiation, kids get them and cover up when 10 they go out in the sun and use sunblock and the 11 Green Vehicle program. This is an EPA website, 12 the address is www EPA dot Gov, forward slash, 13 one word, greenvehicles. And what this site 14 does is it rates new cars and trucks according to 15 their emissions and fuel economy. This was 16 begun back in October of 2000, but it is an 17 interesting site because it uses a 10 point scale 18 and allows you, if you are shopping for different 19 vehicles, to compare similar types of vehicles 20 and so if you want to base your decision on fuel 21 economy and pollution, you can do so. 22 We talked about some of the things 23 that were done; more needs to be done, and one 24 way of getting things done is to make innovations 25 the way of doing business. And what I mean by GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 100 1 this is that instead of being a specifications 2 where sometimes you look at innovations and try 3 to come up with your solution, it should be the 4 norm. In order to do this, we need to use 5 existing tools that we have, we have to develop 6 new ideas and work with others on their new 7 ideas. 8 And the last point is sort of the 9 advertising part of the message here and that is 10 that we have to make the case for innovations and 11 who do we have to make this case to? Well, we 12 certainly have to make it internally within EPA 13 which we are doing. We have to make it to the 14 states. In the case of New Jersey, obviously we 15 don't have to do that because the Council was 16 well aware that it wants innovations and we have 17 to make it to the public and to people like the 18 environmental community who a lot of times pushes 19 us in new directions, but sometimes are reluctant 20 to go in this new direction because they are 21 concerned that there may not be the control that 22 there was in the past. 23 The ability to take a risk has to 24 exist not only in government but has to exist 25 outside of government, which gets me to this GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 101 1 slide here which shows that there are sometimes 2 conflicting objectives when you are dealing with 3 innovation. One, that we face is the objective 4 of focusing on a group of priority programs and 5 applying innovations to those priority programs 6 as opposed to using the resources that we have to 7 trying to spread innovations throughout the 8 entire organization. 9 Another one, a second one there, is 10 increasing flexibility and when you do that, 11 sometimes you are decreasing accountability, so 12 there is a balance there between providing for 13 that flexibility but still maintaining the 14 oversight and approval you need to keep proper 15 oversight of the program. 16 There's the tendency to want to do 17 new things and contrast that with keeping the 18 base program which you may have going and may be 19 going well, and keeping that in existence. You 20 know the old saying about "If it's not broken, 21 don't fix it," and you have to be able to 22 determine if something is going to be improved 23 through innovations or are you just going to do 24 something different, you know, without much 25 benefit. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 102 1 And finally, it is being able to do 2 things faster versus the desire to involve 3 stakeholders in what you are doing. The fact of 4 the matter is the more people you get involved, 5 the more opinions you solicit, the more time it 6 takes so there can be that conflict there. 7 There are a number of things going on in EPA that 8 are considered to be innovative, I don't have the 9 time to go into these, you can read them up 10 there. There's a list there, there's more 11 programs that we have that are innovative. 12 I just want to talk about two areas 13 that we are moving into where we are applying 14 these techniques which are on the horizon. One 15 is something called Green Airports. Airports, 16 it is becoming apparent that airports are a 17 greater source of air pollution than we once 18 thought they were. In the past, we focused on 19 aircraft themselves. It turns out that the 20 ground operations at airports are polluting and 21 so we are looking more and more at those ground 22 operations and ways of regulating them and 23 controlling them, and ways of doing this so that 24 it will be looked at and apply innovations, 25 innovation to the problems, stuff that we talked GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 103 1 about before. 2 Another concept is General Permits 3 or Self Certification. This is done in 4 Massachusetts, they have what is called a 5 Massachusetts Environmental Results Program and 6 what this is, this is aimed at permitting of 7 small sources, not things like power plants or 8 refinery, the smaller sources like a dry-cleaner 9 or gasoline station and what it does is it 10 provides the owner of the business with a 11 workbook that the owner can go through on a 12 step-by-step basis and assess the problem and 13 also can determine whether the business is in 14 compliance with pollution laws. And it also, 15 the workbook, describes necessary control actions 16 that need to be taken and how they can be taken. 17 So, again, this sort of moves 18 government away and allows for self certification 19 and what you have to do, like the IRS does with 20 taxes, you have to do random checks and audits to 21 make sure things are done properly, but it gets 22 you a lot more compliance a lot more rapidly than 23 you otherwise would. 24 Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Mr. Baker, thank GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 104 1 you very much. Every year just about you come 2 down to Trenton and you always bring something 3 good and useful and relevant and you have done it 4 again and we appreciate that. 5 I think we'd like to try, in the 6 interest of time, try to limit our questions 7 here, if we could. 8 DR. BIELORY: Actually, you skirted 9 over something that I thought the Clean Airplane 10 Council has performed, actually a symposium with 11 schools and actually from our preliminary report 12 was quite successful. You have indoor air 13 quality for schools, IAQ, it is an instrument 14 already in use, how successful, can that be an 15 indication for the young future leaders, that is 16 who is going to try the legislative pool, I don't 17 know how much arm-twisting I can do now, but the 18 future is to train the right people in the right 19 frame of mind. 20 MR. BAKER: That is tools for 21 schools. That is aimed at the Board of 22 Education or the administration, and it is a way 23 to get people who are responsible for the 24 building to go in and assess indoor air quality 25 issues in the schools and get them corrected. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 105 1 DR. BIELORY: How successful has that 2 been. 3 MR. BAKER: My understanding, fairly 4 successful, a voluntary program. 5 What you may have been getting at 6 with the question, you said something about 7 educating students. I don't have this listed 8 here, but actually there is a project that is 9 near and dear to my heart, one that I brought 10 down this area of the country, started in New 11 England, and we are going to be taking it 12 nationally where we are actually developing a 13 curriculum for use in middle and high schools to 14 teach students about air quality issues, and this 15 is being developed under contract by Pace 16 University, and we should have something out in 17 the fall on that. 18 DR. BIELORY: Is that similar to 19 toxic study? 20 MR. BAKER: This is more general 21 air pollution information. 22 MR. SPATOLA: Bill, in the interest 23 of encouraging and promoting innovative 24 technology to the various state agencies when 25 they are involved in permits and in the process, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 106 1 does EPA expect to do any of those guidance 2 documents to try to bring this sort of thing that 3 is happening at the high school level throughout 4 the 50 states; what is going on in that aspect, 5 if anything? 6 MR. BAKER: I apologize, I raced 7 through it, there are actually a couple things up 8 there that addresses that question. We have two 9 guidance documents out there on voluntary 10 programs, one for the mobile source area, cars 11 and trucks, and the other for the stationary 12 source area which allows states to develop 13 controls in these two areas on a voluntary basis 14 and actually take credit for them in their state 15 implementation or clean air plans. And there's 16 actually a guidance document being developed that 17 is more general on how-to-build themes. 18 MR. O'SULLIVAN: You mentioned 19 Clear Skies. I really like your definitions of 20 innovations and your points about improving of 21 old tools and creating new tools. And you listed 22 as one of EPAs innovations the acid rain, the 23 commission program and that is getting to be over 24 10 years old, so that is now old and Clear Skies 25 is building on that old tool. In some respects, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 107 1 Clear Skies has been a success, other respects 2 it's been a lightning rod for criticism. In 3 particular, it has failed with respect to local 4 air quality impacts, there's been national 5 reductions, yes, but in many cases as several 6 environmental groups have pointed out, a majority 7 of the coal plants in this country have decreased 8 their emissions and local quality air impact 9 have gone up. And we have an example right here 10 in New Jersey, that is near the Warren County the 11 plant where no control, relying on acid rain and 12 emissions, have been going up over the years. 13 My question: Is this an old program, yes, it was 14 innovative 10 years ago, it is an old program, we 15 have an opportunity to improve this old tool and 16 actually we have an obligation, I think, to 17 improve this old tool, particularly in the area 18 of local air quality improvement. What is EPA 19 doing in this area to take the new Clear Skies 20 program and change and build upon, innovate on 21 the old acid rain program. 22 MR. BAKER: Let me make sure that 23 people understand the two programs we are talking 24 about. We are talking about an acid rain 25 program which, as you correctly pointed out, has GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 108 1 been around now for over 10 years, and I think 2 has been deemed to be a successful program. This 3 is the one that uses emission credits and allows 4 trading of these credits like a commodity and 5 that has achieved the goals that was set for it 6 in reductions. 7 The Clear Skies program is actually 8 not yet in effect. This is a program that has 9 been promoted by EPA in order for it to be 10 implemented, there is some congressional action 11 that would be required, so the program has been 12 sent to the committee that is dealing with energy 13 matters. And I think it would be good idea to be 14 built into some sort of legislation. What it is 15 designed to do is to reduce sulfur dioxides, 16 nitrogen oxides and mercury, and it does this 17 similarly to the acid rain program by setting a 18 cap on each of these pollutants. It is aimed at 19 power plants as is the acid rain programs, and it 20 requires that these reductions occur in a certain 21 time frame. 22 As Bill pointed out, the program has 23 been a lightning rod for criticism on a number of 24 fronts, and for a number of reasons. I think it 25 is the position of EPA that the program, as GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 109 1 designed, if it is implemented, if Congress 2 adopts it as it is designed, that it will achieve 3 reductions faster and will achieve greater 4 reductions than if we continue implementing the 5 Clean Air Act as it is now structured. Keep in 6 mind that the last time the Clean Air Act was 7 amended was in 1990, and that amendment was 15 8 years in the making and corrected a lot of 9 problems with the older version of the Act. Ten 10 or 12 years from 1990 and the Act has become 11 stale. This is an attempt on the part of the 12 administration to inject some new things into 13 some new techniques and like I said, it is 14 believed that it will be more efficient and more 15 effective doing it that way. You can give me 16 reasons why it wouldn't and we can sit here and 17 debate it, but that's what the agency's positions 18 are, and there are people who feel otherwise. 19 MR. O'SULLIVAN: A lot of the 20 details haven't been released and we look forward 21 to that, in particular with respect to how the 22 new commissioner's training program will address 23 the local air quality impacts. 24 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Okay, thank you 25 very much. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 110 1 (Recess.) 2 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER: My name is 3 Alison Miller. I am a member of the West Windsor 4 Township Council and a certified planner. I 5 have come here to speak on behalf of the New 6 Jersey State League of Municipalities to speak 7 about how the State Plan affects air quality. 8 Everybody wants clean air. Nobody 9 can fail to support the State Plan's goal of 10 meeting the provisions of the Federal Clean Air 11 Act Amendments of 1990 and involving local 12 governments in that effort. But problems can 13 arise when specific strategies are devised to 14 implement the most laudable of goals; and when 15 problems arise for local governments, they turn 16 to the League of Municipalities for help. 17 The league is a voluntary, 18 non-profit association of local governments in 19 New Jersey. All of New Jersey's 566 20 municipalities are members of the league. This 21 is very important to us because they are not 22 required to be members. They choose to be 23 members because the league serves as the eyes and 24 ears of local officials; mayors, council and 25 committee members, administrators, managers, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 111 1 municipal clerks, attorneys, engineers, code 2 officials, planning board members and everyone 3 else who participates in local government. 4 The league's annual conference in 5 Atlantic City is the largest annual municipal 6 conference in the United States and possibly in 7 the world. It is filled with hundreds of 8 educational sessions and exhibitors and is an 9 extremely important resource for local officials 10 who want to do their jobs well. The league also 11 does independent research on issues of importance 12 to local governments, holds hundreds of seminars 13 throughout the year, lobbies the State 14 Legislature on issues ranging from land use to 15 tax reform, and generally strives to protect home 16 rule, to improve the efficiency and effectiveness 17 of local government and to look out for the 18 interests of all taxpayers. 19 The State Plan, which the League of 20 Municipalities has studied most carefully 21 recognizes "the deleterious impacts of both ozone 22 and carbon monoxide pollutants caused by traffic 23 congestion in regional and local 24 plans." (Statewide Policy Structure, Section 25 B.11.Policy 4). Its proposed solution is to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 112 1 alter land use patterns, promoting "center-based 2 land use patterns that reduce automobile 3 dependency, shorten automobile trip lengths and 4 encourage use of alternative modes of 5 transportation." (Policy 3) Implementation of 6 this policy falls directly in the laps of local 7 governments. 8 The League of Municipalities has a 9 reputation in some quarters being ineluctably 10 opposed to the State Plan. Municipalities are 11 seen in these quarters as obstructionists. In 12 the words of a February 3, 2002 Trenton Times 13 editorial: 14 "The New Jersey League of 15 Municipalities never has been a big booster of 16 the Plan, seeing it as a threat to home rule, a 17 principle which the League holds in high regard, 18 sometimes excessively so." 19 Because of the deserved influence of 20 the Trenton Times, the League felt compelled to 21 respond in a letter to the editor from the League 22 Executive Director: 23 "A review of recent history would 24 reveal that the League, in fact, was, and is, an 25 enthusiastic supporter of the State Plan and the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 113 1 cross-acceptance process. We have grown weary of 2 the implementation of the Plan in recent years, 3 particularly when different state agencies send 4 out mixed messages, and when state government 5 chooses not to side with New Jersey's 6 municipalities when they have attempted to curb 7 sprawl." 8 In ther words, the League supports 9 the goals and objectives of the State Plan; they 10 are laudable and worthwhile. The League 11 supports the inclusory dialogue that is the 12 cross-acceptance process. On the other hand, 13 the League does not support attempts to mandate 14 the Plan, to erode home rule and to take away 15 land use decision making from those who live in 16 our communities. 17 Because New Jersey is as densely 18 populated as it is (more densely populated than 19 the Nation of India) efforts to reduce traffic 20 congestion are to be applauded. There are two 21 new Light Rail Lines in Northern New Jersey, the 22 award-winning Hudson Bergen Light Rail, which 23 serves an estimated 8,750 passengers per day, and 24 the Newark City subway system, which serves an 25 estimated 14,000 passengers per day. A third, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 114 1 the Southern New Jersey Light Rail, which will 2 run from Trenton to Camden and serve an estimated 3 4,500 passengers per day, is scheduled to open 4 next year. New Light Rail Systems are an 5 illustration of the State Plan working well. 6 They have succeeded in getting some people to 7 switch transportation modes. It is too soon for 8 studies to tell if they have succeeded in 9 lowering air pollution generated by traffic 10 congestion to any measurable extent. It will 11 also be interesting to compare the journey to 12 work modal breakdown in the 1990 census with that 13 in the 2000 census when those numbers become 14 available later this year. 15 The new interest in Light Rail is an 16 example of the State Plan at its most effective. 17 Cooperation among the state, local governments 18 and regional associations produced projects which 19 furthered the goals and objectives of the Plan. 20 The region in which my municipality, 21 West Windsor, is located does not have sufficient 22 density to support Light Rail, even if it 23 achieves full build-out. This has been 24 demonstrated in a recent analysis by the Central 25 Jersey Transportation Forum. It does, however, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 115 1 have sufficient density to support massive 2 traffic congestion. (West Windsor straddles 3 Route One in Mercer County, and is bounded by 4 Princeton Township to the west, Plainsboro and 5 Cranbury Townships in Middlesex County to the 6 north, East Windsor and Washington Townships to 7 the east and Hamilton and Lawrence Townships to 8 the south.) 9 And to compound the problem, the 10 region has been developing and is continuing to 11 develop at too swift a place for its 12 infrastructure capacity to absorb. This is 13 especially true of the Route One corridor in West 14 Windsor. 15 The State Plan, for its part, seeks 16 to concentrate growth into high-intensity, 17 mixed-use areas, the so-called newer suburbs, 18 the places where development pressure is greatest 19 and would be greatest absent the Plan. The 20 State Plan has classified the Route One corridor 21 in West Windsor an "existing regional center." 22 In other words, the State Plan calls for new, 23 dense mixed residential and commercial 24 development in West Windsor in the vicinity of 25 Route One. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 116 1 However, the Route One corridor no 2 longer consists of farms and hamlets ripe for 3 development according to the latest logical 4 planning theory. Its prime location has already 5 created build-up though not yet build-out, in the 6 traditional automobile-dependent suburban sprawl 7 pattern. Local officials like me cannot put on 8 our thinking caps, consult the State Plan and 9 design communities that will improve air quality 10 by reducing congestion by an auto-dependency. We 11 have to try to retrofit the existing development 12 into a new pattern, and the State Plan does not 13 help us. 14 First, we have a large constituency 15 which likes sprawl. They choose to live 16 auto-dependent lives in large-lot, single-family 17 homes. They don't want mixed use. Many of 18 them are two-earner families who have chosen to 19 locate midway between the two jobs. Many of them 20 expect to change jobs frequently, so a walk to 21 work just now is not a big part of their location 22 decision. And the development community and the 23 lending community see this and make their 24 investment decisions accordingly. People who 25 locate to West Windsor come primarily to send GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 117 1 their children to our excellent schools. That 2 creates pressure on us local officials to keep 3 the school excellent by limiting their growth and 4 providing ratables to support them. We try to 5 control property taxes by welcoming commercial 6 growth while discouraging residential growth. 7 Mixed use is problematic. 8 Second, we must either make use of 9 the existing road network to support the 10 increased density called for in the Plan or build 11 new roads. However, given the existing 12 development, building new roads or widening old 13 ones, means, for the most part, destroying 14 existing neighborhoods. 15 The State Plan gives no guidance on 16 retrofitting classic sprawl into mixed used when 17 the homes and businesses and developers are happy 18 with what is already there. But building new 19 mixed-use development, no matter what burden it 20 places on the schools and the roads and the 21 taxpayers, is the only solution offered by the 22 State Plan to problems caused by traffic 23 congestion in places like West Windsor. 24 The State Plan can help guide 25 development and redevelopment into centers. It GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 118 1 can encourage regions and localities to provide 2 and commuters to rely more and more on public 3 transportation. It can promote environmental 4 protection policies that will lead to cleaner air 5 and cleaner water, and it has. But it will take 6 more than planning policies to reach the clean 7 air goals for New Jersey articulated in the State 8 Plan. It will take money. It will take funding 9 of infrastructure improvements. It will take 10 adherence to tougher and more expensive pollution 11 standards. It will take the best efforts of 12 housing advocates and growth advocates and 13 preservation advocates. It will take cooperation 14 of private and public sectors, and it will take 15 an unprecedented level of commitment at all 16 levels of government, local, state and federal. 17 Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 19 much. That is very thoughtful, and I was 20 thinking how many hours I have spent in your 21 lovely township. 22 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER: How nice. 23 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Any questions? 24 MR. FEYL: I have one observation. I 25 think as we look at plans and what's happened in GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 119 1 the past, sprawl is largely a function of what we 2 tried to do years ago in controlling density. 3 As we upzoned two, five, and 10 acres, we ended 4 up with far more homes and infrastructure on 5 larger tracts of lands. Instead of vamping 6 local options and controlling our expansion to 7 stay through the State Plan and you, through 8 other legislation, takes away that local 9 oversight such as BOGA codes, the residential 10 site improvement standards, locally we can work 11 with development and do what is the right thing 12 for the community based on community standards as 13 opposed to diluting those standards as the State 14 Plan in many cases does and legislation and other 15 regulations does, being overlaid over the entire 16 state. 17 I think we have to be offshoots as 18 we implement plans that have a State Plan. 19 Innovation is stripped when you start overlaying 20 statewide mandates. You can do creative things 21 locally, but you can't do those things without 22 any funding. There again, it goes to the 23 infrastructure issue, the school issue, the 24 property tax issue, who are paying for these 25 things that are now mandated by a state overlay. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 120 1 I had to amplify what was said. 2 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER: Thank you, it 3 is nice we're in agreement. 4 DR. MANGANELLI: I'd like to add a 5 note of disagreement. When you talk about plan, 6 immediate plan is more of a regional because 7 after all, planning doesn't add to our 8 communities' borders, and you have 566 9 communities in this state of ours, some of them 10 are big, some of them are small. And so 11 consequently you are going to have a conflict. 12 And you keep mentioning about home rule and this 13 home rule is one of the things that tends to 14 destroy good planning because each one has their 15 own agenda to keep, and I don't see how you can 16 have a good statewide plan, have a good idea of 17 reducing sprawl or reducing densities and still 18 maintain this home rule. And the specific agenda 19 I would like you to address this with regard to 20 home rule versus a good statewide plan. 21 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER: Well, from the 22 point of view of a local official, it is not so 23 much home rule but home responsibility. If you 24 are going to try to regionalize planning, you 25 have to regionalize everything else; you have to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 121 1 regionalize funding, you have to regionalize 2 school funding and there have been problems with 3 regionalizations schools in the past. We want 4 to keep up the quality of education, that's why 5 New Jersey is such a good place where people want 6 to live because so many of our suburbs have 7 wonderful school systems. 8 We look at the property tax system 9 as the key to our responsibility, and as long as 10 we are responsible for the fund, we local 11 officials feel we should be responsible for the 12 decision making. 13 I was thinking, as I listened to the 14 last two speakers, of what questions I would be 15 asked, and I was thinking that I would be asked 16 about mixed use in West Windsor which I have 17 explained the difficulties of, and I thought 18 someone would say, well, what would it take you 19 to consider mixed use instead of have pure 20 commercial ratables. And the answer is massive 21 funding, not a Smart Growth grant this year and 22 then the right to apply for a grant next year and 23 then a little help for the schools the year 24 after. But think years of commitment up front, 25 to the costs, to the community of the extra GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 122 1 residents, especially the young ones needing 2 education. And I think that if the state and 3 the region were to develop innovative 4 revolutionary funding programs to back up their 5 wish for mixed use, you'd see an awful lot of it. 6 MR. ELLISTON: John Elliston with 7 the Department of Environmental Protection. A 8 question and then a comment on the area with this 9 as well. It is my understanding that the 10 Council is planning to have a meeting at the 11 League of Municipalities this year. 12 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Yes, we are, in 13 November. 14 MR. ELLISTON: Maybe some of this 15 dialogue can continue at that time because it's a 16 very good subject that should go forward and 17 Council will be at that meeting. My question is 18 if this hangs on the question of planning, at one 19 time I heard that there were several thousand -- 20 goes to a question of 566 municipalities, 21 literally many thousands of miles of line 22 delineations along all the municipalities in the 23 state. You straighten them out one end to the 24 other and comes out to many thousands of miles. 25 And it is no secret that the municipalities tend GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 123 1 to zone their undesirable things at the borders 2 of their neighboring municipalities, and the 3 question that I have here is, is that good 4 planning? Because it kind of defeats exactly 5 the things that you are trying to talk about. 6 As a citizen of one community and I see what 7 happens in the next community and what they put 8 at their borders next to ours, it occurs to me 9 and occurs to many, many, many tens of thousands 10 of citizens month by month by month. How do you 11 address that issue. 12 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER: The way I 13 address it as a local official is to reach out to 14 all my neighbors and work with all my neighbors. 15 I take very seriously the municipal land use law 16 regulations, that we examine our master plan's 17 consistency with the master plans of our 18 neighbors. I think that joined mutual master 19 planning would be a good idea. What I don't 20 really like are some proposals for non-mutual 21 master planning, that is community A has not 22 developed on its border, community B has, but it 23 was a long time ago, community A wants to 24 develop on B's border, community B wants to have 25 some of kind of say on this. I think what we GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 124 1 need to do is address borders mutually and work 2 together. 3 Now, we do have 566 municipalities, 4 but there's an awful lot of steps towards 5 consolidation, there's mutual school districts, 6 of course, but we have different proliferation of 7 those, there are 611 of them. I don't know 8 exactly the number; West Windsor has a joint 9 Health Department with two of its neighbors. 10 Many other municipalities are reaching out across 11 the borders, and there are incentives to study 12 consolidation, and when I was first elected, 13 there were 567 municipalities so progress has 14 been made. 15 MR. McCARTY: This goes back to the 16 league, is there a way for the league to actually 17 participate and coordinate municipalities working 18 together on these planning issues; if you don't 19 want the outsider to come from the top, do you 20 know, is there a way for the league to work 21 within its own membership to coordinate this 22 planning across families of adjoining 23 municipalities? 24 MR. FEYL: If I might address that, 25 however, because it becomes so regional in GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 125 1 nature, I believe that the counties have done a 2 great job of coordinating the regional plan or 3 the State Plan. The State Plan has really 4 fallen for the counties to coordinate, and I 5 think they have done an effective job of that. 6 There are boundary issues that the county can 7 address and there is regional planning. But I 8 think the suggestion of having the panel at the 9 league addressing the State Plan and the various 10 pros and cons would be outstanding for November, 11 not necessarily this meeting at the league that 12 we have talked about before but having a man 13 necessarily have those who have a stake in what 14 happens at the State Planning. 15 On the home rule, you live where you 16 live because you like the character of the 17 community. I live where I live because I like 18 the character of the community, I pay outrageous 19 taxes and you may pay outrageous taxes, that is 20 your choice and that is your right, that is the 21 home rule, our right to choose where we live in 22 this state or anyplace else in the United States. 23 Once we overplay the same color signs, we lose 24 our individuality as community. 25 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 126 1 much, that was great. 2 (Recess.) 3 MR. DELLA FAVE: My name is Joseph 4 Della Fave. I am from Newark, I reside in 5 Hoboken, but I am the executive director of 6 Ironbound Community Corporation which is a 7 34-year-old community services organization. And 8 one of the people we have worked with in the past 9 is Bill Imprezzi, who is a member of your council 10 and asked me to come and share some thoughts with 11 you. I don't purport to be a clean air expert 12 of any sort. 13 Our organization is primarily a 14 social services one providing everything from 15 child care to Meals on Wheels with a number of 16 things in between including teen pregnancy 17 programs as well as children's asthma programs 18 and adult education, et cetera. 19 Our concern about clean air stems 20 primarily with our work with children and health 21 issues and what apparently the quality of the 22 environment in Ironbound contributes to in the 23 way of their health. I would like to give you a 24 little context from where our comments are coming 25 from in terms of what our community looks like GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 127 1 in Newark and in the Ironbound section. 2 The Ironbound gets its name from 3 historically being surrounded by railroad tracks. 4 It is that part of New Jersey which borders on 5 the Passaic River, Newark Bay and is surrounded 6 by the Amtrak train line on one side, Routes 78, 7 One and 9, the turnpike around it. Along the 8 Amtrak lines is Route 21, a major entry and exit 9 way to Newark and the Passaic River is Raymond 10 Boulevard. Essentially, we are surrounded by 11 major highways which obviously would contribute 12 to air pollution within the community. It is 13 also an extremely congested community, about a 14 mile square with about 50,000 people within that. 15 From that, you might be able to surmise that 16 there's tremendous traffic and parking congestion 17 within the community as well. That type of 18 congestion, obviously, would also contribute to 19 the air quality in the community. 20 Surrounding that immediate 21 community, immediate residential community, is a 22 great deal of manufacturing, between One and 9 23 and the Newark Bay, between South Street, a 24 borderline street that sort of divides the 25 residential from industrial all the way to Newark GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 128 1 Airport. Many of those industries are both 2 chemical industries as well as trucking 3 industries. So, in many ways, we are sort of 4 trapped in this community surrounded both from 5 within and without, air pollution being emitted 6 from vehicles and factories. In addition, we 7 also house the state's largest garbage 8 incinerator within the community. 9 For those of you who have done work, 10 Department of Environmental Protection, would 11 know it is the site also for the major Super Fund 12 site, the Diamond alkaloid site which is the 13 major, as well as known contaminants sites on the 14 Department of Environmental Protection list. 15 There are two public parks, 16 recreation sites, which have been closed due to 17 contamination for a number of years now and that 18 kind of gives you a brief context from which we 19 look at the issues of environmental quality and 20 clean air. 21 I asked my staff to give me a list 22 of things that would contribute to cleaning up 23 the air somewhat within the community, and I 24 wanted to read that to you. Just go through it, 25 and then focus on a couple of these, if I could. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 129 1 Reduce auto traffic and trucking by providing 2 alternative support for mass transportation. 3 Subsidize both passenger and freight 4 requirements, encourage barging at all ports, 5 strengthening the SUV acts, diesel trucks and 6 cars should have to meet the same standards. 7 Enforce factory emission standards. Focus on the 8 polluted areas, urban areas, stop putting 9 transfer stations, et cetera and dealing with the 10 environment issues which are related, put money 11 into urban parks, especially highly polluted 12 areas. Provide funding for massive tree 13 planting, stop developers to build housing with 14 concrete where nothing can grow. 15 I am going to touch on a couple of 16 those. Before I do, I want to say that our 17 community is currently engaged in a planning 18 process, developing a neighborhood master plan 19 and one aspect of that master plan is a 20 recreation open space plan or element which is 21 one of the two roll-up maps that I brought. I 22 think I probably could explain it to you pretty 23 easily. One of the things that we are 24 confronted with in our community, and I am not 25 sure it is the case in all urban communities but GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 130 1 certainly within ours, we have one-half of an 2 acre of open space, of park space for every 3 thousand residents. There are about 28 usable 4 park acres in the community. The national 5 average in large cities such as Los Angeles, New 6 York, Chicago, et cetera, is about seven 7 and-a-half acres per thousand, so the disparity 8 is tremendous. I bring this up because parks 9 are not only where baseball fields are and 10 see-saws and things of that sort but also lots of 11 trees. In fact, we engaged in a struggle a few 12 years ago to save a public park which included 13 numerous 100-year-old trees, it was a homestead 14 design park, in order not to have that park 15 demolished -- demolished for a baseball stadium. 16 My point in a nutshell is simply 17 that in places like Ironbound, we need more 18 parks, we need parks that have trees, we need 19 trees. Obviously you guys know the data on this 20 better than I do, that certainly contributes to 21 the quality of good air by consuming pollution 22 rather than by emitting it. 23 So the policies that help us in 24 urban communities, expand parks, grow trees is an 25 important one as small as it may be. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 131 1 Another aspect of our open space 2 plan is to create green corridors throughout the 3 community and the green corridors would do a 4 couple of things; they would connect people by 5 visual sightings to their parks, so this would 6 connect one park to another across the community. 7 Secondly, there would be trees 8 planted along these streets; again, something 9 small, but we think is important for places like 10 ours for the quality of life as well as the 11 quality of the air. And they would also be, by 12 virtue of their architectural design, 13 pedestrian-friendly and by doing that, we are 14 hoping to support people walking around their 15 neighborhoods as opposed to driving around their 16 neighborhoods. 17 Again, the types of policies that 18 support this type of neighborhood planning and 19 that type of redevelopment, if you would, 20 neighborhood improvements, I think, are extremely 21 important for places like ours. 22 Brown fields was mentioned. There's 23 been a tremendous amount of redevelopment in our 24 community which on the one hand we may say is 25 good, on the other, nearly all of it is GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 132 1 residential redevelopment on former industrial 2 properties. And nearly all of those industrial 3 properties are contaminated to one degree or the 4 another. The most commonly used, in fact, I 5 think it is the only used remediation tool has 6 been capping. 7 In addition, on the many other 8 problems this may cause down the line, obviously 9 capping is not allowed for the growing of trees, 10 let alone the growing in backyards. We are 11 getting housing developments which have a number 12 of problems, but this is one of them, the use or 13 the allowance by Department of Environmental 14 Protection for capping to be the remediation tool 15 on any one site I think has to be seriously 16 looked at when the accumulation of this means 17 that lots of contamination is left in the ground 18 across the community and trees are being 19 prohibited from being grown in order to green the 20 community. So, in both regards we don't think 21 this is a very healthy development. Naturally, 22 there are other issues involved with that. The 23 fact that development sites are being provided 24 with the approval to grow in such fashion as 25 opposed to being required to have on sizable GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 133 1 development proposals any type of open space, 2 included within that, is something which we don't 3 think is a good thing and it ties our hands 4 somewhat. 5 Municipal land use laws do not 6 currently permit, I don't think, a mandate to 7 have open space within sizable developments 8 within urban communities. And anything which 9 can address that issue would certainly be helpful 10 to communities like ours. We are looking for 11 well-planned redevelopment projects, and by 12 well-planned, we mean ones that contribute to the 13 quality of life in the community in all regards, 14 to their balance in both their economic and 15 social and in various other considerations, they 16 are balanced in the terms of the numbers of units 17 that they provide as well as the number of trees 18 and open space areas that they provide for kids 19 to play in. This we regard as smart and good 20 development as opposed to what we are seeing in 21 our community, which is what I had just 22 described. 23 Clearly, in places like our 24 community where many municipal budgets don't 25 allow for bus loops of any sort, budget GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 134 1 constraints don't allow for that, anything which 2 contributes to increase in public transportation, 3 the ability of people to get around through means 4 other than the private vehicles as we have in 5 such a congested community as ours would be very 6 helpful for us as well. 7 I would tell you that in our 8 surveys, in dealing with children's asthma in 9 our community, we find that, and this is 10 primarily anecdotal for your information as 11 opposed to any scientific study, we do know that 12 children's asthma and asthma episodes is the 13 number one cause for admissions into the local 14 hospital. Children's asthma is cited by school 15 nurses, teachers and principals in every 16 Ironbound school as to the number one cause for 17 children's absences. And we know in our own 18 pre-school that I think it is the last survey we 19 did, 50 percent of the poorest families in our 20 pre-school children in those families were 21 suffering from asthma. There are lots of things 22 that we do in order to help families dealing with 23 their asthma problems and to minimize the 24 triggers to asthma, both in the home and 25 elsewhere. But when people get out of their GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 135 1 house and into the air, there's not much more 2 that they can do. And I think that's where the 3 matter of providing good, clean air comes in, and 4 it is not just an environmental academic issue 5 but one which is extremely important for people 6 who live in communities such as ours, 7 particularly children who have astonishing asthma 8 rates and have to contend with that, and that is 9 one of the biggest impediments of their healthy 10 growth and development, not only physically, 11 emotionally and academically, if you are not in 12 school, you can't learn. So the relationship to 13 clean air to children's asthma to us is extremely 14 critical. 15 The last thing I would say is that I 16 also, I am a member, although by proxy, someone 17 else usually attends the Commissioner's 18 Environmental Equity Advisory Council, and I 19 think some good efforts were made on the Council. 20 We need stronger efforts that give communities 21 greater opportunities before and after approvals 22 are granted so that people's voices can be heard 23 and the types of problems that I am describing 24 can be heard and can be strongly considered when 25 the siting of facilities such as incinerators or GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 136 1 waste transfer plants or other types, or even 2 factories which emit a tremendous amount of 3 pollution are granted their approvals. The 4 current environmental equity process, more 5 dispute resolution process really does not allow 6 for that. So I would strongly recommend that 7 communities are fully informed and that 8 communities are given an opportunity to talk 9 about these things and, in fact, influence 10 decisions such as these. 11 I know science is important. There 12 is no question, though, that children's absence 13 from schools, even the academics, every single 14 principle is also extremely important in these 15 cases. 16 That's pretty much it for me. I 17 brought maps to show you some planning, et 18 cetera, but I don't really need to roll them out, 19 I will provide them to you. Thank you very much. 20 Unless you have any questions. 21 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you, Mr. 22 Della Fave, you are a compelling speaker, 23 representative of the Ironbound area and we thank 24 you for making the trek down here. I am sure 25 that Council has a question, I have one question, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 137 1 Ironbound, from whence does that name derive? 2 MR. DELLA FAVE: It derives from the 3 neighborhood itself being surrounded by various 4 railroad lines, the Conrail lines, the old Penn 5 lines, et cetera. You want me to roll a map on 6 out and show you the lines? 7 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Please. 8 MR. DELLA FAVE: Newark is much 9 larger but this is the Passaic River, this is 10 Penn Station,in Newark, and the Amtrak line runs 11 here towards the airport, the airport is south of 12 here, Newark Bay is where you are at. 13 (At which time there was a 14 discussion held off the record.) 15 MR. DELLA FAVE: The railroad lines 16 went right along right up here. Obviously here, 17 the old lines used to run, in fact, right through 18 the community. You can see this here, this 19 little spacing, this green space here, this line 20 here, that is an old railroad right-of-way as 21 well, the Morris Canal ran through here which 22 transported -- 23 DR. BIELORY: Point out Raymond 24 Boulevard. 25 MR. DELLA FAVE: This here is GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 138 1 Raymond Boulevard and you would be coming off the 2 highway right over here and this is Raymond 3 Boulevard. So that is here. This, in fact, is 4 One and 9 and the turnpike goes through here, 78 5 wraps around here. Route 21 is here and is 6 being expanded at either end from four to six 7 lanes, so there will be more traffic there. 8 The Newark arena, which will be the 9 site of the Devils and Mets, will be right here. 10 This is Lafayette Street, it will be right here 11 with an estimated 6,000 cars per night probably 12 not being able to get through McCarter Highway or 13 down through 21, will probably be a thoroughfare 14 for some of those 6,000 cars as well. 15 If you took a poll in this community 16 right now, the Newark arena would probably get a 17 resounding no because of the tremendous concerns 18 about the traffic and parking implications for 19 the community. 20 This is River Bank Park. It was to 21 be the site of a minor league baseball stadium 22 which has been developed downtown. Here are the 23 only two major parks you can see in the 24 community. 25 DR. MANGANELLI: Where are the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 139 1 stationary sources, the factories and 2 incinerators? 3 MR. DELLA FAVE: Diamond alkaloid, 4 which is the dioxin Super Fund site right here, 5 the county sewerage plant is here. This is all 6 manufacturing and trucking. All of this as well 7 is within the community as a residential and 8 industrial community. This master plan hopes to 9 separate the industrial in purple from the 10 residential so that we can perceive the good 11 industry that is here because residential 12 development in the industrial sector will only 13 create really bad neighbors for one another and 14 probably end up driving jobs and industry out. 15 So we are trying to draw a line. It might seem 16 simple and obvious, but this is the most feasible 17 area to invest in Newark and, in fact, a lot of 18 development has occurred here, a lot of 19 investment, residential investment is encroaching 20 on the industrial sites. We are not for 21 polluters, but we are not for losing jobs; this 22 is the different balance you have to strike 23 sometimes. I'd like to see a line drawn so the 24 best of the neighborhood community is preserved 25 and that no more industry comes in here. There GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 140 1 are streets in here right now. 2 I just came from a meeting at the 3 State House Childhood Education policy. The 4 Department of Environmental Protection statistics 5 on the amount of hazardous material and various 6 types of the toxic materials which are 7 transported through the community is astonishing. 8 Part of that is not only because it is going 9 through to get through Raymond Boulevard or 10 another part of Newark, but also those plants 11 within the residential community and the 12 long-range vision obviously would be to find 13 places, including brown field sites, here where 14 you have a nice transfer, a nice ease highway 15 movement of an industrial site within the 16 community to a brown field site outside the 17 community making best use of both sites. That 18 is mores easily said than done. 19 MR. ZONIS: You might point out in 20 the industrial section to the right while you 21 lost an employer you now have a new occupant for 22 that site which is the Essex County jail for 23 about 2,000 inmates. There is a mix use for you. 24 MR. DELLA FAVE: That's right. The 25 jail was originally part of the deal, you take GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 141 1 the jail and we will give you a stadium. We 2 really didn't want the stadium, but we do have 3 the jail nonetheless. 4 DR. MANGANELLI: The mixed uses as 5 presented to us before the mixed use and you have 6 it set up like this, more people would walk and 7 yet you have triple parking and everything else 8 down there. How come being that you have 9 everything within walking distance, anything you 10 can imagine down there, yet the cars are still 11 parked all over the place? It is high usage for 12 automobiles which destroys this other idea of a 13 plan or mixed use and the people walking. 14 MR. DELLA FAVE: I think the answer 15 is twofold, it is not a simple answer. Part of 16 it simply is not everything is necessarily within 17 walking distance, Ferry Street is a great 18 commercial district as well as Lafayette Street 19 is, you still who have lots of double parking 20 around, you don't have enough parking spaces, it 21 is not only that traffic is moving but people 22 actually parking for the day as a double parked 23 vehicle. There's a certain way of life that 24 people understand and when you double park, you 25 keep your window open to hear for the horn that GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 142 1 might be blowing so you can come out and move in 2 time. 3 DR. BIELORY: That community was 4 built for one car, one family, and now you have 5 two or three cars per family and the area has not 6 grown, so the space is the same. Our children 7 all have cars. 8 DR. MANGANELLI: Doctor, what do you 9 think is triggering this great asthma problem? 10 DR. BIELORY: Number one, don't 11 take it out of context, all urban centers, Newark 12 as a whole thing. What he has allocated for you 13 is there's some things have to be taken with a 14 grain of salt, so to speak, but the City of 15 Newark there are incredible parks. The question 16 is how do you average it per area. The reason 17 for poor health we are talking about Clean Air 18 Council and clean air is getting improved health, 19 that's probably why the whole concept Department 20 of Environmental Protection came out of it before 21 in the Health Department, so to speak, is because 22 of irritants, doesn't make a difference, you have 23 an acute effect of any exposure causes ocular, 24 skin and respiratory effects, long term, 25 asbestos you will cancer in 20 years. You need GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 143 1 legislation to take care of that, but you need 2 something to take care of the immediate impact 3 and allergies are on the rise and that has to do 4 with environmental exposure. 5 If you want to know what that place 6 looks like, every time you land, that line on the 7 right-hand side is the landing path to Newark 8 Airport, you come down Route One and 9 to land in 9 the airport. You will see on the right-hand 10 side, Ironbound, and on the left-hand side, the 11 terminal, the trucking industry and everything. 12 But the reason for that is the 13 density and irritation. Bergen County is the 14 most densely populated county in New Jersey and 15 New Jersey is the most densely populated in the 16 United States and per capita is one of the most 17 heavily populated states in the United States and 18 has the highest asthma and allergies in the 19 United States. 20 My attitude is I think we still need 21 to open up the window, so you get a little 22 sneezy, but on the other hand, you breathe a 23 little better. Having a healthy building, you 24 know, the patient is dead. 25 MR. DELLA FAVE: I mentioned this GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 144 1 area right here Celanese, and this is Ironbound 2 stadium closed for about 15 years or so due to 3 pcb's in the ground there. So this is closed. 4 River Bank Park was closed for three, four years 5 to be remediated due to arsenic, and a few other 6 metals. Those are two of the sites that we had 7 to deal with. This is extremely costly, that 8 will be quite awhile, this whole site. 9 We are hoping, I will mention this, 10 we are hoping to take the whole stretch of the 11 waterfront which is part of a redevelopment plan 12 and hopefully green the entire stretch of this 13 here. 14 This site here on the opposite the 15 River Bank Park has been part of River Bank Park 16 but it's extremely deteriorated. This site 17 right here is where all the containers were 18 stacked, this was Wellco Gas, these sites are not 19 developed right here, but we are hoping that 20 between the city and county -- and we have a 21 meeting with Green Acres in about a week or two 22 in fact. We are hoping between the various 23 government entities we can get some planning and 24 develop some implementation strategies for 25 greening the entire waterfront. It is the last GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 145 1 people of this community that we can contribute 2 to open space, not to mention that it would 3 enhance the downtown development scheme, much 4 like Central Park did. 5 DR. BIELORY: Did you ever think 6 about a river walk concept? 7 MR. DELLA FAVE: Yes, that is 8 planned and it is being implemented by the Army 9 Corps of Engineers and that is going to stretch 10 from here up to Bridge Street, but it is just a 11 40-foot walkway and we are trying to use that as 12 a hangar to use the rest of the sites as a green 13 site. 14 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Any questions 15 from the Council members? 16 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: There was a 17 comment made about the population of cars. Many 18 communities in New Jersey now are tapping into 19 some state money, I don't know what the 20 particular fund is, to establish shuttle systems 21 in the rush hours. I know Maplewood has one, I 22 used to live there, and I think they were one of 23 the communities to set it up. You might want to 24 consider seeing if a shuttle system would have 25 some people get rid of some of that, it is a GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 146 1 congested area and adds to the overall air 2 pollution problems. 3 MR. DELLA FAVE: It is a great idea. 4 I would like to say that we are going to have new 5 schools built as an Abbott community. All the 6 Ironbound schools will be replaced, the 7 elementary schools were built in 1888. In doing 8 that, you know one of the conflicts you run up 9 against is where teachers park versus where kids 10 play and playgrounds have turned into parking 11 lots. We are pushing the notion of perimeter 12 parking lots from where teachers are shuttled to 13 their schools, and we will see how that pans out. 14 We will check with Maplewood. 15 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Any other 16 questions? 17 Sir, thank you very much. 18 Steven Flint from the New York 19 Department of Environmental Conservation, the 20 chief of light and heavy duty vehicles. 21 MR. FLINT: I am from New York DEC, 22 and I want to talk a little bit today about 23 technical innovations and maybe even policy 24 innovations also under impact of air quality. 25 I would like to thank the Clean Air GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 147 1 Council for the opportunity to speak today and 2 present New York's view on technical innovations. 3 New York like New Jersey is faced 4 with a variety of difficult issues regarding 5 reductions in emissions of air pollutants. Metro 6 New York is classified as a nonattainment for 7 ozone based on the current standards. And 8 implementation of the new ozone standards will 9 require further reductions in New York as well as 10 implementation of new PM standards also require 11 additional activity. We have already put in 12 place a wide range of controls in New York, 13 pretty much on everything that we can control, we 14 have smokestacks, we have requirements for 15 architectural coatings and paints, we have stage 16 2 gasoline vapor recovery, and we have motor 17 vehicle inspection maintenance programs, and I am 18 sure all this sounds familiar. We even have 19 controls on personal care products like 20 deodorants and hairs sprays to deal with ozone 21 precursors. Even with this broad range of 22 controls, we still need to do more and again we 23 are faced with similar issues on particular 24 standards and this is really only starting to 25 come to the forefront in particular, since we GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 148 1 have learned more and more about the impact of 2 toxins to the respiratory system. 3 4 5 6 Mobile sources, both on road and non-road, and 7 that includes cars, trucks, buses, heavy trucks, 8 construction equipment, pretty much anything that 9 moves, are a large and growing portion of our 10 inventory. They're a major contributor to NOx 11 and they are the dominant portion of our PM 12 inventory. While we have had a lot of successes 13 controlling the emissions across the board, it is 14 the mobile that continues to grow. In fact, 15 since we have had a lot of success in reducing 16 the emissions from the tailpipes of automobiles, 17 those reductions have been more than offset by 18 the increases in VMT, and increases in the light 19 truck fraction. The number of cars, increases in 20 the numbers of miles driven and then as changes 21 in the weight fractions of vehicles, the 22 incidence of more light trucks and a greater 23 fraction of light trucks than there used to be 24 has resulted in an increase in the light truck 25 fraction. Mobile sources are a significant GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 149 1 source of air toxics nd greenhouse gases. Only 2 through extensive reductions from this sector 3 will we be able to attain our air quality 4 objectives. 5 The Clean Air Act places fairly 6 stringent restriction on what states can do for 7 new motor vehicle emissions. States may adopt 8 the federal standards which are automatically in 9 place across the country or they may adopt the 10 California standards. They may adopt standards 11 identical to California and there is a fairly 12 stringent set of restrictions there as well. 13 Those are the only two choices, you can't have a 14 state-specific standard. If you are an 15 automobile company, it would be pretty onerous, 16 you can't build a car for different states, it 17 will really mess up their products. In the 18 early 1990s, New York adopted the California 19 standards. And since that time, we have gone 20 through a number of regulatory revisions and 21 adoptions and changes to remain "identical" with 22 California. We have also gone through some 23 fairly extensive litigation to defend our 24 program. We remain fully committed to 25 implementing a California program in New York. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 150 1 We continue to do this, we, as recently as two 2 weeks ago, we proposed an additional set of 3 regulations to maintain the identicality with the 4 California programs. 5 Back in 1994, the Ozone Transport 6 Commission called for implementation of the 7 California Low Emission Vehicle program 8 region-wide, the area from basically Washington, 9 D.C. to Maine, to address the transport and 10 severe ozone attainment issues in the East Coast. 11 That spawned a series of negotiations with EPA 12 and the auto industry that ultimately led to the 13 National Low Emission Vehicle program which 14 implemented standards, put standards into place 15 for 2001 nationwide earlier than could have been 16 done. According to the Clean Air Act, they 17 didn't permit that until 2003, so this process 18 started at the OTC and developed through the end 19 of that program was actually a bit of an 20 innovative policy development in and of itself 21 and actually Bill Baker had that on his slide 22 this morning and he didn't talk about it. 23 That led to the Tier 2 program which 24 was yet more stringent and it was more stringent 25 than I think most of us expected, most of us have GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 151 1 been involved with. Despite this, we have in 2 New York chosen not to opt into that program and 3 we chose to continue the California program and 4 its offspring, the LEV II program rather than the 5 federal Tier 2 program. They were both 6 excellent programs, they took the standards far 7 beyond where we thought they would be. However, 8 our air quality issues in New York were such that 9 we felt we needed the extra step that could come 10 from the California program. 11 One of the highly attractive aspects 12 of the LEV program is the technology forcing 13 aspects of the program. While most people have 14 heard of the Zero Emission mandate and that is 15 technology forcing and the most highly visible 16 and highly controversial technology forcing 17 aspect of the program. There are other factors 18 as well. To see what they are, you need to 19 think about what constitutes advanced technology. 20 Twenty years ago in automobile, 21 advanced technology was something like fuel 22 injection or electronic ignition; today, you 23 can't buy a car with a carburetor. All cars 24 today include advanced, on-board diagnostics 25 which have the capability of measuring small GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 152 1 changes in the operating parameters which could 2 cause a change in emissions. The on-board 3 diagnostic stores this information in an on-board 4 computer and notifies the operator to "check 5 engine soon," the light in the dash. On board 6 diagnostics has reached a point where it has the 7 capability of measuring misfires in a single 8 cylinder, the car is turning over at several 9 thousand revolutions per minute and may be firing 10 a cylinder per second and will determine a single 11 misfire. It measures leaks in the fuel system, 12 thousandths of an inch. Stores through pressure 13 sensor, stores that information. Are equipped 14 today with on-board refueling vapor recovery and 15 now as a result of these elements and on-board 16 diagnostics and/or other advancements in the 17 controls, feedback loops, measurement of exhaust 18 in the tailpipe as well as advanced formulation 19 of the catalytic converters, cars are routinely 20 meeting ultra low emission standards which is an 21 84 percent reduction in hydrocarbon emissions 22 when compared to the federal Tier 1 level which 23 was the rule 10 years ago. So thus, in many 24 ways, every new car sold today is loaded with 25 advanced technology. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 153 1 In the context of the LEV program, 2 the California program, it has a slightly 3 different meaning. The LEV program includes 4 technology forcing elements, that is, specific 5 requirements that result in continuing 6 developments and implementation of continuing 7 technological developments that further reduce 8 the emissions of motor vehicles over their life. 9 One of these elements is something referred to as 10 declining fleet average which requires the 11 overall sales fleet of each manufacturer to be 12 cleaner each following year. As a result, you 13 see new emission control technology evolving from 14 a few, usually smaller cars, into broader 15 application over the entire fleet being applied 16 on a vehicle, usually on a small, low products 17 vehicle, small displacement engines and as 18 experience and understanding is gained through 19 that technology, it expands over the entire 20 fleet. Again, if I go back to the Ultra Low 21 Emission Vehicle which in the early 1990s the 22 California law emission program was being 23 developed, there was a lot of discussion as to 24 whether it was going to be technically feasible, 25 never mind economically feasible. By the 1997 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 154 1 time frame, the first Ultra Low Emission Vehicle 2 certifications were being sold. Now, some 3 manufacturers are reporting that the ULEV 4 technology will be 30 to 40 percent of their 5 sales fleet. By the end of this decade, eight 6 years from now, the required fleet average is 7 drops below ULEV levels, so nearly all cars will 8 be ULEV or cleaner. That is technology driving 9 throughout the fleet. 10 The more visible and controversial 11 technology forcing element is the Zero Emission 12 Vehicle mandate which also we in New York have 13 adopted and we have gone through much pain over 14 the years. Under this program, the six largest 15 manufacturers are required to sell a specific 16 portion of their fleet as Zero Emission Vehicles. 17 And right now that probably means the 18 battery electric vehicles. Under the more recent 19 programs, California has also established a 20 credit mechanism so that certain exceptionally 21 clean vehicles can also receive ZEV credit, and 22 other advanced technology vehicles, such as 23 hybrid electric vehicles, can also receive 24 credit. 25 The attractiveness of the ZEV GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 155 1 program relative to advanced technology vehicles 2 cannot be overstated. The recent modifications 3 adopted by California extend these benefits to a 4 class of vehicles that are not typical ZEVs, 5 non-battery electric vehicles, bring us to some 6 other very distinct advantages but contain other 7 advanced elements - vehicles classified as 8 partial Zero Emission Vehicles - or PZEVs. 9 California has established stringent 10 threshold criteria for a vehicle to be considered 11 a PZEVs, to be considered it must meet Super 12 Ultra Low Emission Vehicle, SULEV, or tailpipe 13 emissions standards, which are a fraction of the 14 ULEV standards, 0.01 g/mi HC, 0.07 g/mi NOx, they 15 must meet zero evaporative emissions criteria; 16 and they must be warrantied for 150,000. Think 17 about how long you own a vehicle. In order to 18 be a PZEV, a vehicle must be certified as zero 19 evaporative emissions, which, if you start 20 looking at your inventory, fuel evaporation is a 21 significant component. Very interesting element 22 of the PZEV criteria is 150,000 mile warranty. 23 This last requirement speaks to a real benefit of 24 ZEVs that is often overlooked, that is, that they 25 don't experience deterioration over their life. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 156 1 The car, a PZEV that is warrantied for 150,000 2 miles is very clean the day you buy it but also 3 very clean 10 years later, whereas conventional 4 automobiles deteriorate over time, and that's why 5 we have I&M programs. I don't need to tell 6 anybody in New Jersey how controversial I&M 7 program is. 8 Interesting, manufacturers are 9 already responding to the challenges and 10 opportunities of PZEVs. Honda markets a natural 11 gas fueled vehicle that is PZEV certified. 12 Nissan has a conventional gasoline fueled 13 vehicle, available in California, that is PZEV 14 certified, not available in the northeast because 15 our fuel is not as clean as California. Several 16 manufacturers are either currently or in the near 17 future will be marketing hybrid electric 18 vehicles, and we expect many of them to also meet 19 PZEV standards. We think hat Honda has the 20 insight, Honda will be selling a hybrid PZEV 21 vehicle in the near future. The domestics will 22 be offering in the foreseeable future. We 23 expect that many of these vehicles are going to 24 be PZEV certified, not all, as the technology 25 matures and manufacturers become more comfortable GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 157 1 with it, they will be. The interesting thing 2 about these PZEVs is that we think they are going 3 to appeal to a much broader portion of the car 4 buying market than the true ZEV. Many, many 5 more people will have use for a hybrid ZEV 6 vehicle. You don't need to look at the number of 7 ZEV vehicles on the road today that will have use 8 for a battery electric vehicle, battery electrics 9 are somewhat limited in the application. 10 Therefore, we think they will receive much wide 11 distribution. 12 In our most recent adoption of the 13 California ZEV requirements, and we did that at 14 the end of this last calendar year by emergency 15 rule in order to meet necessary lead types, we in 16 New York provided manufacturers with some added 17 flexibility in implementation of a ZEV program 18 through what we call Alternative Compliance 19 Option. Under this option, manufacturers can 20 elect to participate in a program whereby 21 additional credits are granted for various 22 qualifying vehicles, provided they start the 23 introduction of those vehicles earlier than would 24 otherwise be required. ZEV mandate in New York 25 will go into effect in the year 2005. It had GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 158 1 been in place since the start, we lost it in 2 court and because the changes have gone on in 3 California and requirement for lead time, 4 manufacturers are required to be given a minimum 5 of lead time, 2005 is the earliest we could put 6 the ZEV program in place. 7 We think that this, the program, 8 again, in order to opt into the program, 9 manufacturers must start a year earlier. So 10 while the requirement of the California mandate 11 has applied to the start 2005 under the applied 12 option they would have to start 2004 but we would 13 receive additional credits for vehicles. We 14 think this provides the opportunity for early 15 introduction of advanced technology vehicles 16 while providing manufacturers with the ability to 17 ramp up their production and marketing efforts to 18 the levels required under the mandate. In 19 addition, manufacturers can complete 20 infrastructure projects which may be necessary 21 for full roll-out of their PZEV technology, and 22 receive credit for those programs. 23 Several, but not all of the 24 manufacturers who would be affected by the 25 mandate, have indicated to us their intention to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 159 1 participate in the Alternative Compliance 2 Program. 3 A discussion of advanced technology 4 in mobile sources would not be complete, from my 5 perspective, without mentioning some of the 6 developments we are experiencing regarding heavy 7 duty vehicles. A number of years ago, the DEC 8 embarked on a research project to demonstrate and 9 test the use of Continuous Regenerating 10 Technology particulate traps on the NYC Transit 11 buses. After a year of the demonstration 12 program, Governor Pataki announced that the New 13 York City Transit would be retrofitting their 14 entire diesel fleet with this technology. The 15 benefits of the filter technology are striking. 16 We receive in excess of 90 percent reduction in 17 hydrocarbons, including toxic compounds and 18 particulate matter as compared to conventional 19 buses. This retrofit by New York Transit is 20 ongoing and will be completed by the end of 2003 21 when over 3,000 diesel buses will have been 22 retrofitted with traps. In addition, New York 23 City Transit is purchasing new natural gas buses, 24 and high technology diesel hybrid electric uses, 25 equipped with traps, of course. This conversion GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 160 1 to trap technology required the use Ultra Low 2 Sulfur Diesel fuel, which needed to be at 30 3 parts per million sulfur, or less, as compared to 4 roughly 350 parts per million typically on road 5 sulfur content. 6 So, in September of 000, which by 7 the way was before EPA promulgated rules for 8 Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel to go into effect in 9 2006, before they promulgated those rules, New 10 York Transit started taking delivery of the 11 diesel routinely and operates all of its diesel 12 fleet on this fuel. Interesting, this very 13 large purchase agreement led to the availability 14 of this fuel for other agencies and therefore 15 allowing other groups to participate in this type 16 of retrofit technology. More and more groups in 17 the metropolitan area are looking at this 18 technology advancement as a viable option for 19 reduction of particulate matter, and the 20 associated toxic emissions from diesel engines. 21 For instance, power authority is embarking on 22 project to retrofit school buses with similar or 23 comparable technology. We are continuing to 24 look at other places where it can be applied: New 25 York Sanitation, New York DOT, as well as state GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 161 1 agencies will be investigating methods to extend 2 it into other private operations as well. 3 We look forward to continuing to 4 work with New York City Transit and other public 5 and private partners in development, testing and 6 implementation of new technologies from all 7 mobile sources. 8 Technology advances that are going 9 to help us reach our clean air goals are going to 10 come in a wide range of forms: fuel changes and 11 additives may result in emissions improvements, 12 materials developments may result in vehicles 13 that are lighter and therefore result in lower 14 emissions but not without loss in strength, 15 improvements in emissions monitoring technology, 16 on board a vehicle may result in a tighter 17 envelope for the vehicles to operate in. Other 18 changes, such as conversion to hydrogen-based 19 fuel cells are also going to bring major emission 20 improvements, but will take longer and might also 21 bring issues of infrastructure and cost of 22 roll-out. We are committed to exploring these 23 technologies as they emerge, and working with 24 industry and government to identify and resolve 25 issues in the most efficient way possible. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 162 1 We think technological developments 2 will be incremental in nature, with small 3 improvements built one upon another. We don't 4 expect to see a home run on air pollution, I 5 don't expect to see hydrogen fuel cell buses and 6 trucks operating in the immediate future; 7 instead, we are going to see small bits and 8 pieces working one on top of the other and 9 getting gradual and small increases across the 10 board. We would like to look at the heavy duty 11 market, we think that is where the greatest 12 potential is to reduce emissions; there is not 13 much that comes out of the tailpipe of a car, as 14 I understand, you can't asphyxiate yourself from 15 cars anymore if they are operating properly. 16 We remain "data driven," we are 17 looking at the science behind all of these 18 technologies. We confront new claims of 19 technological achievements and advances with a 20 need to verify that these advances produce the 21 emission benefits that it claims. We want to do 22 that before it becomes part a part of our control 23 strategy. 24 While we will continue to rely on 25 technological innovations to help us meet our air GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 163 1 quality goals, these innovations will not occur 2 without investment in research and development 3 programs. Government policy and programs, such 4 as the LEV and ZEV programs provide some of the 5 impetus necessary to promote such investment. 6 I thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: You gave us a 8 lot right here. 9 (At which time there was a 10 discussion held off the record.) 11 DR. MANGANELLI: You mentioned about 12 the on-board diagnostics; what impact will it 13 have upon our I&M, you also alluded to New Jersey 14 problems. 15 MR. FLINT: As the OBD penetrates 16 the entire fleet, I&M programs should get easier. 17 You can plug into the port on a car and read 18 whether there are stored codes. Stored codes 19 will tell you if there is a fault in the system. 20 OBD does not measure emissions, it measures the 21 performance of the control system, so it is not a 22 direct comparison, but it is a pretty good 23 indicator. And EPA has policies on how to do OBD 24 inspection programs, there are some vehicles that 25 are still going to need standard I&M program, you GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 164 1 still might need a dynamometer down the road for 2 certain vehicles. 3 MR. EGENTON: I was interested in 4 the success, the bus fleet in New York. I sit on 5 one of the advisory boards at New Jersey Transit, 6 any cooperative effort there across the state 7 lines that you can share that information with 8 them as far as your bus fleet is concerned? 9 MR. FLINT: We have had tremendous 10 successes working with MTA and New York City 11 Transit in this program. They have embraced the 12 program, they are fully committed to it, they 13 have people whose sole job it is to make sure 14 that buses are being retrofitted. I am 15 estimating there's probably 750 buses currently 16 retrofitted and more being done daily. 17 A key issue is the fuel and with MTA 18 contract, the fuel is available in the port. 19 Now, large volume, MTA purchases 50 million 20 gallons per year, that does a lot towards making 21 sure there is a supply there. They obviously 22 also have to have a committed supply. We don't 23 deal across the river into New Jersey, we would, 24 I am sure, be happy to work any way we could to 25 help facilitate that. Certainly we see a lot of GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 165 1 traffic across the river that goes in both 2 directions, we see air that moves across the 3 river in both directions, to the extent regional 4 implementation works, it helps all of us. 5 Certainly I would be happy to volunteer myself 6 and rope others into technology transfer stations 7 wherever that might be applicable. 8 MR. ZONIS: I'm sorry, I lost track, 9 PZEV partial ZEV does electric hybrid fall into 10 that category? 11 MR. FLINT: Yes. 12 MR. ZONIS: What else fits into that 13 PZEV if it omits the UZEV requirements and 14 certified as zero evaporative and has 150,000 15 mile warranty, it can be classified as PZEV. 16 MR. FLINT: There is a Nissan Sentra 17 CA is a gasoline conventional vehicle, meets that 18 requirement and has been certified as a PZEV. 19 Honda has a natural gas vehicle that has been 20 certified as a PZEV, Honda Civic GX I believe it 21 is. 22 MR.ZONIS: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL: Bob 24 Campbell, I personally want to thank you and 25 your colleagues at New York DEC for the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 166 1 leadership you have demonstrated in this area of 2 coming to grips, thank you very much. 3 MR. BAUMAN: I am Steve Bauman from 4 New Jersey Central Power & Light. The program I 5 am going to be talking about and the technologies 6 that you I want to feature are statewide in 7 application. We are talking about two things: a 8 statewide energy incentive program and also some 9 innovative technologies and I will feature one 10 technology as an example, not that it is the only 11 one. 12 I have the best job in the world; 13 what I do is give money to people to make their 14 facilities operate for efficiently, something 15 they do anyway, but don't have the money to do 16 it. The realty is saving energy saves air, 17 improves the cleanliness of air. For every kWH 18 of electricity that you save, you save 1.39 19 pounds of CO2. Likewise 100 CF gas saved 20 reduces CO2 emission by 11.5 pounds. 21 New technology and utility incentive 22 programs can help people save energy, it will 23 encourage them to. The reality is more time 24 than not the energy-efficient equipment has 25 higher first-cost than standard equipment and the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 167 1 bottom line is people relate more to what it 2 costs them when they write out the check 3 sometimes when it will save them long-term. 4 That is the reality and we are dealing with it 5 pretty effectively. 6 In the program, the statewide 7 program is New Jersey Clean Energy. That 8 includes everything residential, commercial, 9 industrial which I will be talking about and 10 renewable. There's rebates for wind power, fuel 11 cells and biomass so take a look at that website 12 and all the technologies will be excellent for 13 improving the air quality. 14 The goal of the program is to offset 15 the difference in cost between the standard 16 technology and the higher efficient technology. 17 Again, when people decide to build or replace a 18 piece of equipment, they have a choice, either by 19 standard what they have before or what is on the 20 shelf or they can go that extra yard and get 21 something more efficient but that more efficiency 22 is going to cost them a little bit. 23 The goal of the program is going to 24 offset that difference to the point where it 25 becomes insignificant and ultimately to encourage GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 168 1 the threshold of energy efficiency to the point 2 where we don't need rebates, we are priming the 3 pump. 4 How do you encourage people, you pay 5 them. Simple, we give monetary incentives, we 6 give grants to help design efficiently. We give 7 rebates based on equipment efficiency ratings and 8 we have been in the rebate business in New Jersey 9 since 1988, so we have a whole list of equipment 10 that we know will save energy, how much it will 11 save and we give so many dollars in rebate to 12 help the station. The other thing I guess 13 promote awareness, what we try to do to our trade 14 allies or any organization trying to grow the 15 awareness of the program and the benefits 16 throughout. We are promoting new technologies 17 in many different ways. This is not done with 18 tax dollars, this is not done with public funds, 19 this is actually done through the societal 20 benefits portion of the utility bill so when you 21 look at your deregulated utility bill, three 22 portions: one for the actual commodity, the kWH 23 that you use for the electricity or the amount of 24 gas; two, you pay for the transmission or 25 distribution; and three, you pay societal GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 169 1 benefits. From those benefits a lot of different 2 programs are covered including the rebates that 3 we are talking about. What I am saying is that 4 we can make everybody more energy-efficient, not 5 have to fund it from public funds and actually 6 the rate payors themselves are funding it and we 7 are rewarding the ones who become more 8 energy-efficient by giving those dollars back to 9 them. It is a nice program and everybody wins. 10 Now, the New Jersey SmartStart 11 buildings is a subset of the New Jersey Clean 12 Energy program which deals with the commercial 13 and industrial sector. Design assistance 14 grants, and by the way, everybody was talking 15 about Smart Design, Smart Planning, we are Smart 16 Building, so it ties together. In a New Jersey 17 Smart Start Buildings, we offer to pay a design 18 team to get together before the first line is 19 drawn to talk about energy-efficient alternative 20 ways to do things; in other words, if you are 21 building a school, a choice will be for your 22 consultants to reach over his shoulder and pull 23 out a set of drawings that he had done for the 24 last 15 years or start with a clean piece of 25 paper. What we want to encourage the school GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 170 1 boards to do and the consultants is to start with 2 a clean piece of paper, define a baseline and 3 come up with a couple alternative ways of doing 4 it. We will pay for brainstorming energy, 5 bottling it and incremental design costs so the 6 one who is going to be paying the bills will have 7 the objective benefit of looking at all the 8 possibilities there. We have prescriptive 9 rebates for proven equipment. We have custom 10 rebates for non-prescriptive applications. We 11 have rebates offset most of incremental cost. 12 We want to stay open for new technologies or 13 other application, for existing technologies 14 under the custom program, if someone comes to you 15 with a block box technology that is going to save 16 you 50 percent, we will say fine, where is your 17 customer, let's take a look at it and we will 18 help pay the engineering studies and then 19 afterwards pay some of the incremental costs 20 after that. We are looking for people who think 21 outside of the box. As I said, the rebates are 22 designs to offset that increment in cost between 23 standard and high efficiency. 24 We looked at the Reality, now we are 25 looking to see how we can modify that Reality to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 171 1 clean-up and help people save energy. The 2 rebates will bridge the money gap we are trying 3 to let people know that the rebates are there, if 4 they want to do something, we will help them pay 5 for it. We want to let them know that 6 first-cost doesn't make a lot of sense. If you 7 are looking at a facility, a building according 8 to -- has a life of 40 years, and out of that 40 9 years, 50 percent of the cost that will go into 10 that building is operating and maintenance 11 cost, 11 percent is front-end initial cost, so 12 what sense does it make to look for a simple 13 payback. When you are putting in a piece of 14 capital equipment, you want to look at what 15 happens for the life of that system, for the life 16 of that technology. So we want to convince 17 people not to just look at first-cost but to look 18 more at life-cycle mind-set and we want to let 19 people know if they can save kilowatts or gas, it 20 is not only good for their business, it is good 21 for the U.S., good for the economy and good for 22 the environment as well, a win/win situation, and 23 that's why I have the best job in the world, to 24 talk to people about it. 25 One of the things I want to stress GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 172 1 today, I think we have an opportunity with public 2 facilities, with public buildings, we can set an 3 example. The private folks do what is required 4 by code or what they think makes sense or 5 whatever we can do. The public acts as the 6 stewards of the public dollars, we should do what 7 we can to encourage a life-cycle mind-set. 8 Nothing that I hear works, and I hear it a lot, 9 state-funded programs and maybe have 10 electric-resistant heat in them because it is 11 cheap. You are going to pay tax dollars on 12 that for the rest of the building's life. That 13 is not the example we want to set for the private 14 sector. 15 You should consider using more 16 innovative technology, don't use what was good 10 17 years ago and designed 20 years ago, let's use 18 what is proven now and going to be the 19 technologies of the future. 20 So we want to be open to new 21 energy-efficient technologies, and that leads me 22 to one of the things I want to talk about today 23 in that line would be what some people call 24 geothermal, I use the term GeoExchange. What it 25 does is it is a technology that utilizes the heat GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 173 1 of the earth in the wintertime to heat buildings 2 and I want use the heat sink of the earth in the 3 summertime to cool buildings. You are 4 exchanging BTUs between the earth and the 5 buildings and the electricity doesn't make heat, 6 it moves heat. There is a different between 7 that, and I will show you where that goes. The 8 federal government is taking a strong leadership 9 position in that because now they are looking at 10 systems which will deliver the lowest life-cycle 11 cost and both the EPA and the DOE have assessed 12 that the GeoExchange has the most environmentally 13 friendly system and the lowest life-cycle cost 14 and they are going to the point of baselining it 15 as a reference point when they are doing new 16 facilities. 17 Some of the largest GeoExchange 18 facilities in the country are federal 19 installations. I think someone from Stockton 20 will be here later, they had the largest system 21 in the world. The technology is around long 22 enough, you are not guinea pigs and has been 23 proven and analyzed. 24 Just real brief because I don't want 25 to get technical but quickly, you have Mother GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 174 1 Earth has a BTU; in the wintertime you have a 2 series of loops, this is a Bore Field, you have 3 plastic pipes in the ground, you have water that 4 runs through this loop field, it is a heat 5 exchanger basically and that connects up to heat 6 pumps inside the building and from inside the 7 building that connects to air distribution 8 systems like that that will move the BTU in the 9 building or out of the building. 10 In the summertime, you can't say 11 that but once you get below 10 feet, it stays 12 below 50 degrees year round, there is a lot of 13 heat in 50 degree geology. The water will bring 14 that into the pump room and the heat change 15 refrigeration cycle will take it out of the 16 building. Summertime you reverse the cycle, 17 take the BTU out of the building and run it to 18 the geology which is cool in the summertime and 19 an excellent place to get rid of the heat. It 20 is an exchange system and you are not using the 21 electricity to make heat, you are using it to 22 move heat. 23 So you have the air loop inside the 24 building to move the air around that carries the 25 BTU, you have refrigeration loop inside that GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 175 1 changes the BTU between the room air and the 2 ground, and we have the ground which takes the 3 BTU into the earth. 4 But does it save energy and keep the 5 air clean? I put together some data for a 6 presentation that we did in Atlantic City in 7 January and it was kind of amazing to me when you 8 put all the efficiency ratings, the most popular 9 systems together and this 1.54 kW per ton is one 10 of the methods that they use. It goes from 1.54 11 kW/ton and the higher the number, the less 12 efficient it is all the way through most of the 13 popular systems you have seen even to the most 14 efficient chillers down to about 0.81 kW per ton. 15 With everything considered, you can save up to 47 16 percent with a kW per ton on a GeoExchange 17 system. 18 From a heating system efficiency, it 19 is more phenomenal. How can you have a 400 20 percent efficiency? Simple. The definition 21 behind this is how effective you convert energy 22 to heat. Remember what I said, you are not 23 using the electricity to make heat, you are using 24 it to move heat. Those heat pumps can move the 25 BTU within the building so it is self-supporting GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 176 1 system to a degree. That's why you can get high 2 efficiency on it. We know that it is going to 3 save energy. 4 Now will it clean the air. Just as 5 a scenario, I put this together, I assumed about 6 100 tons of cooling which is a small, medium size 7 commercial load and if I use a 1.4 kW/ton rooftop 8 and I take away the 88 kW/ton GX closed loop, I 9 save about half a ton -- half a kW per ton. 10 Now, each kW saves 1.39 pounds of CO2, so every 11 hour this particular system runs, I have stopped 12 emitting 72 pounds of CO2. When you think of 13 pounds and gas, you have to realize that is a lot 14 of gas you are talking about, that is one hour. 15 Typically, you might have a 3,000 hour cooling 16 system or 2,000 hour, you are talking probably 17 150,000, 200-, 250,000 pound per year for this 18 one small system, that is in the cooling mode, 19 on the heating mode as well. 20 I took a closed loop 320 percent 21 efficient, 92 percent condensing gas boiler, I 22 went through the numbers and found out that I am 23 going to be saving 28 pounds of CO2 emission for 24 every hour that operates. So, for a longer 25 period of time, you are going to have a GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 177 1 significant benefit in the reduction of CO2. 2 People say yeah, but it costs a lot. Wait a 3 minute, let's talk about costs a bit. 4 "Relative Installed Costs." This 5 comes from data collected in the State of New 6 Jersey in 1999 over various projects, and you 7 can't see this but those are the least expensive, 8 the PTAC up to the four pipe fan coil chiller. 9 This is cost per square foot. The GeoSystem is 10 right about in the middle, $17.00 or $18.00 per 11 square foot, the most expensive is up around 12 $25.00, and the cheapest is around $8.00, so it 13 is not way up there and it's certainly not way 14 down there, but it's in the ballpark, even from a 15 front-end cost and less expensive than some 16 systems. 17 What about the payback on it. 18 Let's take a look at "Relative Operating Costs," 19 and kWH square foot per year. This is the most 20 expensive system, you are talking over $25.00 per 21 square foot and this is a GeoExchange system 22 about $7.00 a square foot. It is not going to a 23 lot of years of operation for that small 24 difference in the front end to be paid back and 25 when you consider it does promise a nice rebate GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 178 1 that even reduces that time further. 2 So, if you hear people say it costs 3 too much, we are not going to consider it, they 4 haven't looked closely enough. You have to do 5 some due diligence and be open to look at new 6 things. 7 "Customer Benefits of GeoExchange." 8 The very same system does the cooling and the 9 heating, you don't have any outside components, 10 you don't have cooling towers outside, you don't 11 have things along the coast that are going to 12 deteriorate quickly with the salt air or the 13 sands. You don't have things to be vandalized. 14 Everything is underground and the pipes are 15 guaranteed for 55 years. The most important 16 thinking is a good as-built drawing because you 17 don't want to dig them up accidentally. If you 18 are dealing with a new construction in, say, a 19 school and you want to air-condition that school, 20 you save enough footprint in that building to get 21 a free classroom, you can easily do an entire 22 high school in less than a quarter of this room 23 here, entirely mechanically equipment space. 24 We had the lady from West Windsor 25 here, they had done that there. You had the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 179 1 other gentleman, they had done the Middletown 2 school systems with geothermal. 3 New Jersey is on the leading edge 4 now, and I think we can stay that way because it 5 is going to be good for everybody. It is easy to 6 operate and maintain, you are not dealing with 7 high pressure stacks, you are not dealing with 8 any fossil fuel, you are not dealing with 9 anything that is hard to deal with on the site. 10 Indoors, every classroom or every 11 office can control independently so if you have 12 that school I mentioned before with a hot side 13 here and a cool side next door, this room can be 14 air-conditioned and this room can be heated and 15 strictly staff-controlled, whatever you want to 16 do with it. It is also going to maintain a 17 better relative humidity in the wintertime 18 because it is not heating the air quite as high. 19 Long-term operating/maintenance cost 20 we talked about this afternoon, it is the lowest 21 life-cycle cost but slightly higher possible 22 initial cost. But presently, the statewide 23 program does pay $580 per ton rebate which could 24 equate to 25 or 30 percent of the outside field. 25 So it doesn't take a way the home front-end GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 180 1 difference, but as you can see from the savings, 2 it is going to pay back quicker. 3 In summary, I would ask you to 4 continue to support new energy-efficiency 5 technology, have people look at the rebate 6 programs because we talked about the GeoExchange 7 but there's rebates for all high-efficiency 8 design. 9 Promote life-cycle cost particularly 10 when it comes to new facilities or replacement of 11 capital equipment because life-cycle is 12 meaningless, it doesn't say what happens after 13 the life-cycle is returned. Unlike stocks you 14 buy these days, the money that you invest in 15 energy efficiency will continue to pay the 16 dividends as long as you operate the facility. 17 Continue to support rate-payer 18 funded utility rebate programs. Again, we are 19 not asking for public funds to do it, we are 20 asking more or less for awareness and people to 21 participate in the program. 22 And, again, the only thing I guess I 23 can stress again is the fact that we can set an 24 example in the public sector, that's where the 25 tax dollars go to run these things, to set a good GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 181 1 example. 2 We talked about the LEEDs program 3 earlier. The LEEDs get heavy credit for the 4 GeoExchange system. Look at life-cycle, look at 5 where the tax dollars are going for the long 6 term, that is the 50 percent you are committed 7 when you build that building, that is a long-term 8 operating savings. 9 As I say, I am here on behalf of the 10 New Jersey Utility Company which is the gas and 11 electric people throughout the state. The 12 website is in the information that you have in 13 that tri-fold you have there. 14 And I thank you for the opportunity 15 to come and talk to you about it, and if I can 16 answer any questions, I would be happy to do 17 that. 18 DR. MANGANELLI: In New Jersey, does 19 the type of geology make an influence. 20 MR. BAUMAN: Yes. The best geology 21 for GeoExchange is wet sand. The worst geology 22 for GeoExchange is dry sand. Moisture content 23 is very important, doesn't matter if it is rock, 24 doesn't matter if it is sand, but if you have a 25 good moisture content, the moisture content GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 182 1 really helps a lot. 2 But to answer your question, in New 3 Jersey we have had some systems installed in 4 1990, 1991, working extremely well. 5 DR. MANGANELLI: Around New 6 Brunswick area is a lot of shale. 7 MR. BAUMAN: That's okay. The only 8 thing it doesn't like is carbon is in limestone, 9 you have to drill in a bore and then you put in 10 plastic pipe and you have to fill it in from the 11 bottom. If you hit a cave, you are not going to 12 grout the cave. 13 The other thing, if you do have a 14 hazardous waste deposit down there, you don't 15 want to disturb it. 16 Those are the two things you don't 17 want to deal with. 18 DR. BIELORY: So the Pine Barrens are 19 fine when you talk about the moisture content. 20 The other question, an environmental 21 issue. We discovered new life forms at the 22 bottom of the ocean at 500 feet, what life forms 23 or what are we disturbing when we do the change 24 of heat? Has research been -- what is their 25 biological systems, are we changing the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 183 1 temperature of the water? 2 MR. BAUMAN: What you have, you have 3 a fixed volume, you have plastic pipes. It is a 4 closed loop. You are changing the heat. Now, 5 remember, the operative term here is exchange, 6 the ideal system has as much heat out as puts 7 back into it. If it is a cooling dominated 8 load, you'll vent, actually pick up the geology 9 slightly over five- or six-year period of time, 10 maybe a degree or two. Stockton, who will be 11 here later on, has done some work on that to 12 watch temperature change. Moisture is one of 13 the active parts as well. 14 Generally speaking, the underwater 15 table does have some motion to it to refresh 16 itself. 17 To answer your specific question, I 18 don't know if they have done life tests on what 19 might be down there, but I think again, the ideal 20 is to take out as much as you are putting back. 21 DR. BIELORY: That would be ideal, 22 but we know that the efficiency of ideal doesn't 23 exist meaning we are going to disrupt something. 24 MR. BAUMAN: When they design the 25 bore field, they design it depending on the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 184 1 nature of the load a slight temperature shift, 2 maybe a degree or two degrees. 3 DR. BIELORY: The bottom line is we 4 don't have that specific information? 5 MR. BAUMAN: I don't have the 6 specific answer to that, that's correct. 7 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you, 8 Mr. Bauman. It is good to hear that Jersey is 9 out front as it is in a lot of areas and your 10 proactive involvement in it and we wish you the 11 best of luck. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 185 1 (PUBLIC HEARING.) 2 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Mr. Bob Campbell 3 of the New Jersey Sierra Club. 4 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: The title of 5 my talk today is "New Jersey Needs to Adopt a 6 California Low Emission Vehicle, Phase II 7 Emission Standards." 8 The New Jersey Department of 9 Environmental Protection, Bureau of Air 10 Monitoring, in its 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000 Air 11 Quality Reports, states: "Ozone and particulates 12 are New Jersey's two most pervasive air quality 13 problems and more measures need to be taken to 14 ensure that those health standards are attained 15 in future years." Motor vehicles contribute 16 nearly half of all pollutants that cause 17 ground-level ozone. They also emit tiny 18 particulates that can lodge in the lungs. 19 Recent studies estimate that these particulates 20 cause numerous health ailments and as many as 21 tens of thousands of premature deaths each year. 22 The current fleet of gasoline and 23 diesel engines are inherently dirty and 24 inefficient. Tailpipe controls and improved 25 fuel quantity only marginally slow the growth in GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 186 1 the pollution from cars. The effect of these 2 reductions in mobile emissions, however, has been 3 further diminished by the increased popularity of 4 light trucks, SUV's and minivans, which produce 5 far greater amounts of pollution than passenger 6 cars, and by increases in the annual total miles 7 driven per vehicle. 8 Congress first enacted the Corporate 9 Average Fuel Economy, CAFE, Program in 1975. 10 The CAFE Standard for passenger vehicles was last 11 increased in 1986, effective in 1990 to 27.5 mpg 12 and the CAFE Standard for all light trucks -- by 13 the way, the definition of a light truck is 14 anything that weighs less than 8500 pounds gross 15 weigh four and one-quarter tons --increased in 16 1993 to 20.4 and is now still only 20.7 mpg. It 17 is worth noting that the actual average CAFE MPG 18 for all vehicles sold in the U.S. in 2001 was 19 actually below the levels required by the law. 20 For the first time ever, SUV's, light trucks and 21 vans accounted for more than 50 percent of all 22 vehicles sold in 2001. 23 In January, 2000, the Massachusetts 24 Department of Environmental Protection and the 25 State Executive Office of Environmental Affairs GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 187 1 announced the state would be adopting the 2 California Low-emission Vehicle, LEV II, 3 standards for tailpipe emissions and that the 4 standards would apply the same emission 5 requirements of passenger vehicles to SUV's and 6 light trucks beginning in year 2003. In November 7 2000, New York State adopted regulations to 8 require the new, cleaner California Low Emission 9 Vehicle, LEV II, standards for all light and 10 medium-duty motor vehicles sold in the state 11 starting with model year 2004. Vermont has also 12 adopted the CA LEV II emission standards. 13 The failure last month of the 14 United States Senate to approve an increase in 15 the CAFE standards, the average miles per gallon 16 required for the entire fleet have vehicles sold 17 by major manufacturers represents a major loss in 18 the battle with the automotive and oil industries 19 to reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil 20 and to reduce the massive volumes of Nitrogen 21 Oxides, NOx, Volatile Organic Compounds, VOCs, 22 and small particulates emitted by the cars, 23 pickups, vans and SUV's to be sold in the United 24 States between now and 2015. 25 The failure to raise the CAFE GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 188 1 standards also means that only one opportunity 2 remains for New Jersey to significantly reduce 3 the exposure of its residents to the high levels 4 of ground level ozone and particulates produced 5 by mobile sources. It makes it vividly clear 6 that we need to act now to do more to reduce the 7 mobile emissions of vehicles registered in the 8 state and to protect the health of its 8.4 9 million residents. If nothing else changes, 10 everyone in New Jersey, and especially those 11 living in urban areas and near major highways and 12 roads, will be forced to continue to breathe air 13 containing excessive levels of ground level ozone 14 and small particulates. 15 The adverse impact on the health of New 16 Jersey residents caused by the continuing high 17 levels of air pollution resulting from mobile 18 emissions can no longer be tolerated. The people 19 of New Jersey should not be expected to wait any 20 longer for federal legislation to require a 21 significant increase in the CAFE Standards. New 22 Jersey has an obligation to do what it can to 23 protect the health of its population. 24 There were 6.4 million vehicles 25 registered in New Jersey in 1999, and that is the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 189 1 latest that I have from NJDOT and their number 2 has likely increased since then. It is essential 3 that the State Senate and Assembly, the New 4 Jersey Clean Air Council and the New Jersey 5 Department of Environmental Protection work 6 together to approve the bills introduced last 7 year in both houses of the legislature, now 8 Senate Bill 121 and Assembly Bill 409, calling 9 for New Jersey to adopt a more stringent 10 California Low Emission Vehicle, LEV II, 11 regulations for vehicles sold in New Jersey 12 beginning in the year 2006. 13 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you. 14 Questions? Dr. Zonis. 15 MR. ZONIS: Yes. Mr. Campbell, 16 thank you for your presentation. Straightening 17 you out on a couple situations. I see that 18 Massachusetts is going to require the tough 19 standards on SUV's and light trucks. Does that 20 also apply to New York, and if that is the case, 21 how can New York pick and choose, isn't it the 22 case that you adopt the California standards or 23 adopt the National Standards? 24 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: We have 25 different standards for light trucks, SUV's GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 190 1 currently, as I said, all vehicles under 8500 2 pounds gross vehicle weight. I am not in a 3 position to explain how it was that the law 4 passed in New York was different than was passed 5 in Massachusetts. 6 MR. ZONIS: Do you know, does CAFE 7 apply tougher standards on SUV's as well? 8 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: I do not know. 9 MR. ZONIS: It seems to me that you 10 made a very strong point, I think quite a proper 11 point, about SUV's, light trucks and vans 12 accounting for more than 50 percent of all 13 vehicles sold. So if we are really going to be 14 going in this direction, you've got to follow the 15 mass pattern rather than be confused, I will say, 16 by what New York does. 17 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: The bills were 18 introduced last year and the Assembly and the 19 Senate call for the same emission standards to be 20 applied for both the light trucks and SUV's. 21 MR. ZONIS: Okay. I always think of 22 diesel trucks as being the source of 23 particulates, that is also true of gasoline 24 engines and the motor cars. 25 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: Absolutely, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 191 1 absolutely. You see more of it from the large 2 diesel vehicles, and, in fact, I am assuming most 3 people in the room know that the new low sulfur 4 diesel fuel were signed into law, went into the 5 federal register about a year ago, I forget the 6 exact date, whether it is 2004, 2005, but it also 7 requires manufacturers of heavy-duty diesel 8 engines to change the design on those engines and 9 be ready to handle that low sulfur fuel when it 10 is available. We made good progress on diesel 11 here in the last year or two. We have failed 12 miserably to address the pollution from light 13 trucks and other passenger vehicles. 14 MR. ZONIS: Thank you. 15 DR. MANGANELLI: This corporate 16 average fuel economy that you mention said they 17 haven't followed it in the last few years; is 18 that correct? 19 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: When you say 20 followed it, it is not -- they are not going to 21 volunteer to stop selling light trucks because 22 someone in the back room doing the calculation 23 that says our fleet average is going to exceed 24 what the law allows us, sort of one of those 25 incorporations you find it out after the fact and GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 192 1 when the tabulations were done for vehicles sold 2 last year and the EPA rated miles per gallon, 3 that's what they concluded. 4 DR. MANGANELLI: That is only a 5 guideline, nothing enforceable by law, is that a 6 guideline. 7 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: I don't know 8 as I am prepared to discuss how that piece of 9 the law is enforced. What it is, it is a target 10 and the companies, the manufacturers of 11 automobiles and trucks and so forth are obligated 12 to design to those increased mileage standards, 13 but they don't control demand for their vehicles, 14 at least they would suggest they don't, but if 15 you watch the TV ads, it appears to me that they 16 promote it. 17 DR. MANGANELLI: I am not clear, you 18 say they obligate it but it is obligation 19 without -- 20 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: The first time 21 it happened and the Senate was trying to set a 22 plan for increased miles per gallon for all 23 vehicles over the next 17 years, he didn't have f 24 the votes to carry it. 25 DR. MANGANELLI: What is the Sierra GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 193 1 Club doing about it? 2 MR. ROBERT CAMPBELL: I am here today 3 speaking to you and others about it in the room, 4 and I am promoting New Jersey -- I am promoting 5 New Jersey adoption of the California LEV II 6 emission standards. 7 Thank you. Thank you very much. 8 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Next is Jeff 9 Tuttle from the New Jersey Sierra Club. 10 MR. TUTTLE: Thank you for allowing 11 me this opportunity, and I am glad when I follow 12 one of our members who is active on issues that 13 matter to all of us and that is what the Sierra 14 Club is about. We are a state, national and 15 local environmental group made up of volunteers 16 as well as staffing on the different levels, and 17 that's what drives the club and where it goes. 18 What is really very important to us is this, it 19 is something that we all need and we can't do 20 without it. 21 When you look at the quality of air 22 that we have here in New Jersey, you have a 23 serious problem. We have spent billions of 24 dollars trying to improve the air over the last 25 30 years, and we have also had a series of GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 194 1 setbacks and I think we need to look at some 2 other areas where we may be able to make some 3 gains. We have been focusing a lot on mobile 4 emissions; enhanced I&M, hasn't give us as many 5 gains as we hoped. In New Jersey, we have newer 6 cars and we didn't get to as many older cars as 7 we thought we would get at. 8 We tried things like the Open Market 9 Emissions Trading Program, but it didn't have any 10 set protocol and problems with that kind of 11 program, though on the other hand OTAG has worked 12 somewhat better. 13 We have problems with Title Five 14 where only about 30 percent of the facilities in 15 New Jersey have come in and been able to be 16 permitted because of either budget cutbacks or 17 other problems in trying to get that program 18 going forward which means that there are 19 facilities out there in the state, and we are not 20 sure what they are doing, polluting more or less. 21 We have no concept compared to New York state 22 which is at about a 77 percent compliance on 23 Title Five and Pennsylvania which is at 79 24 percent. So, we have problems and we need to 25 look at ways of trying to get at some of these GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 195 1 problems. 2 One thing that I like to see happen 3 in the air program, and I know in this year's 4 budget there is money for the NJ I&M program, the 5 technology program in the Department that we 6 should move for that. It makes for the applicant 7 to get the information and looked at much easier 8 and better and easier for the citizens to be able 9 to review things. That might be one way that we 10 can get at some of the backlog that we have by 11 investing in the technology to make it easier and 12 more user-friendly for us. 13 We need to look at the Clean Air 14 Council, which is one of the few parts of 15 government that tries to look at air, but we need 16 to have a better coordination between the 17 agencies of government that really affect air and 18 it is not just the Department of Environmental 19 Protection but the Department of Community 20 Affairs which has a limited and small greenhouse 21 program and needs to be expanded. Also the 22 construction codes and the types of materials 23 that we use, maybe look at more air quality 24 issues, especially with paint and varnishes and 25 things like that. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 196 1 We have the Board of Public 2 Utilities that sets energy policy, and again we 3 need to look at energy policy more from an air 4 perspective, not just from a rate-payer 5 perspective or utility perspective. The 6 Department of Transportation, which is one of the 7 biggest providers of dirty air in New Jersey, not 8 necessarily their on own fault but building the 9 infrastructure is one of the ways that we help 10 promote more sprawl and more air pollution. New 11 Jersey Transit, that we need to do more for mass 12 transit and Department of Commerce have 13 sustainable business to encourage more businesses 14 that are green friendly. We really need to more 15 broadly look and integrate the different parts of 16 government to move forward. And we need to work 17 with the business and the regulated community as 18 well as the environmental community and local 19 governments at large because that is the only way 20 that we are going to get at some of the 21 reductions that we need in the future. 22 We have new technologies coming 23 about every day and they are really important; 24 that we are on guard to using them, whether it is 25 California car or going to zero emission vehicles GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 197 1 which may not work for everyday people, but 2 something that can be used, encouraged by fleet 3 for businesses. 4 I will give you an example. One of 5 the problems that we have in New Jersey is that 6 we don't have a real trip reduction program and 7 we need to bring that back and work. I have a 8 friend of mine who lives in Pasadena, and he was 9 given a natural gas power van and he picks up 10 seven of his co-workers to go to work. He pays 11 no car insurance, doesn't pay for the gas. He 12 and his wife can get by with only one car and he 13 picks up the co-workers. The company, in turn, 14 gets benefits in tax breaks, they save having 15 extra parking spaces and they keep a couple pool 16 cars in case somebody works late or has a family 17 emergency. We need to do those kind of things in 18 New Jersey more, especially so many people 19 commute to some of the large businesses in the 20 state, and government offices, working together, 21 we should come up together with saving on air 22 pollution and energy. 23 We need to start looking at ways to 24 encourage people to use more electric lawn motors 25 and not just those that you plug in but try to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 198 1 encourage lawn mowers actually have battery 2 operators, weeders, blowers, not saying that we 3 should ban that stuff but giving incentives and 4 encouragements from having people away from 5 having the John Deere that pollutes more than 6 your family car to something more cleaner. 7 We need to look at dealing more with 8 airports, at federal issues, state issues. 9 There's been bills around for years and the State 10 legislature is looking at a bubble bill to look 11 at air quality and reduction around airports; the 12 volume that we get and the problems that we have 13 from them become more and more. Two-cycle 14 engines, not just lawn motors but motorcycles and 15 jet skis which are annoying. We should be 16 looking at ways to try to encourage the 17 development of smaller four-cycle engines so they 18 are a lot cleaner and less noisy, not only with 19 the air but less headaches. 20 We need to look at smart highways to 21 try to move cars faster, more efficiently. One 22 of the biggest problems we have, we went to Easy 23 Pass, we have a low speed Easy Pass; in Europe 24 they have Easy Pass and in other states they are 25 going to look at Easy Pass going through at 55 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 199 1 miles an hour. Not only does it hurt us because 2 it undermines the average citizen with 3 environmental regulation when we say we want Easy 4 Pass or I&M, it undermines to some extent their 5 support for what we are trying to do. We need 6 government to try and do things more efficiently 7 and explain things better for people so that they 8 can continue to support and support even more and 9 expanded programs to help clean air. 10 We need to do a lot more on bus 11 technology in the State of New Jersey, the 12 largest purchase of diesel buses in history. 13 That was a shameful episode by the Department of 14 Transportation and yet they said we will help 15 deal with it by going to low sulfur fuel. And 16 this year, with the budget crisis, they said we 17 will go back to high sulfur fuel because we will 18 save money. That is wrong. These buses are 19 going through the communities that have the 20 dirtiest air and need the technology the most. 21 These are cities in New Jersey where in the 22 summertime, mothers are afraid to let the kids go 23 out and play because the kids have asthma. 24 The time is now to start making 25 changes for the future. The technology is GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 200 1 coming in place. I think the will from the 2 public is there. You have a new administration 3 and a new Governor who is committed to protecting 4 the environment. And this is a time to come up 5 with newer solutions and not just go after the 6 big piece, which is mobile cars, but also start 7 looking at some of the smaller pieces we can also 8 add because each time we reduce something, even 9 though the mobile is the biggest chunk, some of 10 these things we can start pulling in, trying to 11 work with business to go after fungible emissions 12 not just out of the smokestacks. These are 13 things that we can do now to help reduce air 14 pollution in New Jersey for future generations. 15 I think everything is in line to entering the 16 right direction and it is a matter of us pushing 17 a little harder and thinking of some new things 18 for our government to do, and I think we can do a 19 lot, and if we don't, it is going to be our 20 generation of shame that the next generation is 21 going to be walking around with more respiratory 22 problems, not less. 23 Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Any questions? 25 MR. McCARTY: You gave a very fine GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 201 1 list, one on the emission reduction travel you 2 had a group of people in the van which we had in 3 New Jersey and it failed and was one of the 4 reasons EPA backed off -- 5 (At which time there was a 6 discussion held off the record.) 7 MR. McCARTY: New Jersey backed off, 8 what are your ideas that maybe we can make it 9 work the second time around? 10 MR. TUTTLE: We also made it a 11 voluntary program, and in California, it is 12 mandatory program. People don't necessarily 13 like mandatory but mandatory does work. 14 The other way to do it is through 15 incentives. Maybe one of the things we can do, 16 since everybody is talking about the corporate 17 business tax, companies invest in van pools and 18 car pools using alternative fuels, they get a 19 nice tax break. Part of the things that 20 companies can do as part of savings, smaller 21 parking lots, saving money in the long term. I 22 think we need to look at potentially some 23 governmental regulation involved, but I think 24 first we should try a little more of the carrot 25 and maybe if we sit down with New Jersey's 50 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 202 1 largest business that employ the most, plus state 2 and county government and start looking at ways 3 of coming up with incentives for them to do more 4 van pooling, also better bus service, jitney 5 service, there is ability to do that. 6 One of the things mentioned was that 7 we work with getting the moneys for the start-up 8 program in Maplewood, they actually do jitney 9 service. 10 Another thing we have been watching 11 and it hasn't gone anywhere is using computers 12 for jitney service in Bergen County. They were 13 trying a pilot program in Hackensack where people 14 dial their phone number and a jitney picks them 15 up to take them to the train. And we have the 16 ability there and we have to start trying more. 17 I think the technology is there, and I think 18 people are more willing today than years ago, 19 especially if they are going to take a train, why 20 do you need to drive your car and park, why not 21 have a jitney? I think they are encouraging, so 22 we can do it financially and potentially, maybe 23 with some regulations. 24 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Next is Travis 25 Madsen. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 203 1 MR. MADSEN: Thank you for allowing 2 me to speak today. My name is Travis Madsen. I 3 work on Clean Air Policy for the New Jersey 4 Public Interest Research Group. New Jersey PIRG 5 is a non-profit, non-partisan environmental 6 consumer advocacy organization with 23,000 7 members across the State. 8 We have been working on clean air 9 issues for quite a long time now, everything from 10 cutting down on emissions in the state to some 11 federal level things like improving emission 12 standards for cars and trucks and most recently 13 working to stop the Bush administration's attempt 14 to weaken the new revision of the Clean Air Act 15 which is important in New Jersey. 16 We are here to advise the Clean Air 17 Council on innovative ways of reducing the levels 18 of smog and can-causing toxics in our air. With 19 a 2007 deadline for northern New Jersey to meet 20 the decades-old public health standards for smog 21 and a tougher 88 ppb standard coming down the 22 line in the future, New Jersey needs to use every 23 intelligent, creative approach to clean the air 24 that is available. Reaching these health 25 standards is really critical for the people of GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 204 1 the state. It will literally prevent hundreds 2 of thousands of asthma attacks and even prevent 3 new cases of asthma for children across the 4 State. In addition to this, we face threats from 5 cancer-causing chemicals in our air continue to 6 be a growing problem. 7 I will focus my brief remarks on three 8 issues. First, I just want to recap our air 9 quality situation because I think it gives good 10 perspective on where we are where we need to go, 11 and then I will talk a little bit about how some 12 recent studies have really solidified the link 13 between air pollution and respiratory problems. 14 And finally, I will make a few recommendations to 15 the state, including that we require auto 16 manufacturers to produce cleaner cars and trucks. 17 So, although New Jersey has really 18 made some progress on the road to clean air in 19 the last three decades, there's still a ways to 20 go. About 95 percent of the people in the state 21 still breathe air that is unhealthy on many days 22 throughout the summer. 23 Let's take a look at our progress 24 over the last 10 years. (Fig. 1). This is 25 monitored by the Department of Environmental GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 205 1 Protection over the last decade. You can see 2 that we made significant progress in lowering 3 peak ozone levels in the early 1990s. However, 4 that progress bottomed out in 1994 and we are not 5 on track to meeting the 1979 health standard by 6 the appropriate deadline. 7 The 8 hour, 80 ppb ozone standard will 8 apply as soon as we read the current standard, so 9 there is a lot of work left to be done, in the 10 short and long term. We need emissions 11 reductions beyond what is currently outlined in 12 the state implementation plan for ozone. 13 Smog is formed in the atmosphere by 14 an interaction between nitrogen oxides and 15 volatile organic compounds by the presence of 16 sunlight. So where do these compounds come from? 17 (Figs. 2,3) Looking at the 1996 18 emissions inventory for the state, this is the 19 Department of Environmental Protection emission 20 inventory from 1996. You can see here that 21 light-duty gasoline cars, basically passenger 22 cars, are responsible for the lion's share of 23 these emissions, more than twice coal-fired 24 electric emissions in the State and looking at 25 VOC emissions, again, we have passenger cars as GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 206 1 responsible for the lion's share of emissions, 2 more than double the solvent and paint use in the 3 state. 4 So thanks to tighter emission 5 controls and technological advances like the 6 catalytic converter, cars are a lot cleaner. But 7 changes in what and how we drive are threatening 8 to offset that progress. SUV's burn more fuel 9 then normal cars, and there are a lot of have 10 them on the road, they account for about 50 11 percent of new car sales in New Jersey. Also, 12 the amount that we drove in the last 30 years 13 increased at a rate three times faster than the 14 population growth. All this on top of the fact 15 that petroleum is inherently dirty, and these 16 cars, the emission controls tend to fail and 17 degrade and over time makes it not so much of a 18 surprise that mobile sources are responsible for 19 about a third of the smog in our air. 20 It is not just smog that we have to 21 worry about either, there are hazardous air 22 pollutants in our skies that increase the risk of 23 lung cancer and other diseases. We released a 24 report this November analyzing hazardous air 25 pollutant modeling data from the US EPA, called GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 207 1 "Invisible Threats." It is available on our 2 website newsroom at www.njpirg.org. That looked 3 at some modeling data for the hazardous air 4 pollutants for each county in New Jersey. 5 What we found was that the average 6 New Jersey resident is exposed to levels of toxic 7 chemicals in outdoor air that is higher than any 8 other state but New York. (Fig. 4) We estimated 9 the average cancer risk over a 70-year lifetime 10 for an average person in New Jersey to be 1600 11 per million which is over one thousand times 12 higher than the goal set in the 1990 amendments 13 to the Clean Air Act. 14 (Fig. 5) Just to give you an idea, 15 here are some of the ranges of risks that people 16 face in different parts of the state, the Clean 17 Air Act goal is basically the baseline so we have 18 a long way to go to reach that. Most of the 19 risk stems from diesel particulates which contain 20 hundreds of different chemicals that are known or 21 suspected to cause cancer and also things like 22 benzene from gasoline and some lower combustion 23 byproduct contribute to that list, 88 percent of 24 it comes from mobile sources because diesel fuel 25 things are usually mobile, including cars, trucks GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 208 1 and all sorts of off-road types of equipment and 2 other assorted vehicles. So these things really 3 stand out as the major challenge between the 4 status quo and healthy air for the people in New 5 Jersey. 6 Ome recent studies have nailed the 7 relationship between dirty air and health 8 problems. Earlier this year the California EPA 9 and University of Southern California completed a 10 study that actually showed that smog can cause 11 asthma in children. We have known for a long 12 time that smog can trigger asthma attacks, but 13 this is the first really strong evidence that we 14 have seen that it contributes to new asthma cases 15 in children who breathe air in dirty parts of the 16 country. 17 There was also a study that came out 18 earlier this year by a George Thurston at New 19 York University and some of the colleagues at 20 Brigham Young University that documented a 21 significant increase in lung cancer risk in 22 people that lived in polluted metropolitan areas. 23 And most of New Jersey qualifies as that. The 24 risk stems from combustion related particulate 25 matter and mostly diesel related combustion and GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 209 1 lodges deep in the lungs and even transmit some 2 chemicals into the bloodstream. 3 They found that the risk is 4 comparable to living with a smoker and being 5 constantly exposed to secondhand smoke. 6 Given this new evidence, we must 7 renew our commitment to providing clean and 8 healthy air to all New Jersey residents, and do 9 everything we can to promptly achieve and exceed 10 our public health goals. 11 So we feel that it is absolutely 12 clear that vehicles in the state need to produce 13 less pollution. As the major in-state source of 14 smog-forming emissions and toxic chemicals in our 15 air, vehicle emissions are a major obstacle 16 between the status quo and a healthy future for 17 the residents in New Jersey. 18 We have several recommendations to 19 put New Jersey on a course to clean air, clean 20 cars and clean heavy-duty vehicles so far. 21 We agree that New Jersey should 22 adopt California Low Emission Vehicle Program 23 Phase II, to join Massachusetts, New York and 24 Vermont in moving to the forefront in a national 25 struggle to achieve clean air. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 210 1 Conventional cars and trucks can 2 take us many places, but unfortunately they can't 3 take us to a future of clean and healthy air. 4 That is why California designed this program in 5 the first place and I think Steve Flint explained 6 in detail about how the program works. 7 I want to mention three things that 8 New Jersey PIRG thinks are critical: 9 It will strengthen emission 10 standards for all new cars sold in the state 11 which will put us on a long-term course to 12 eventually really drastically cutting down 13 emissions from these vehicles. 14 Second, it promotes a transition to 15 inherently low-emission technology by including a 16 requirement that vehicle manufacturers produce 17 new types of cars with very low and even zero 18 emissions. And hopefully some of you got to see 19 some of the cars we had out in the courtyard 20 earlier today. 21 And third, this program is a 22 critical step in lessening New Jersey's 23 dependence on oil, and beginning to reduce carbon 24 dioxide emissions from our transportation sector. 25 These benefits will become much more GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 211 1 apparent in the long term. We estimate total 2 vehicle emissions of air toxins and smog will be 3 roughly 25 percent less in 2020 than what we 4 would achieve under the federal program. Taking 5 this small course correction now will result in 6 major changes in the future which will magnify in 7 the year 2020 when zero emission technologies 8 really begin to be commonplace. 9 The zero-emissions challenge is an 10 enormous economic opportunity for New Jersey. 11 We have the chance to attract a technological 12 revolution, all while improving public health and 13 protecting the environment. 14 There's a lot of high technology 15 companies in New Jersey that provide an example 16 of what this could be like. One that comes to 17 mind is Millennium Cell, a company up in 18 Eatontown which designs fuel cells and they came 19 out with a product that drives hydrogen from 20 liquid sodium borohydride. How to store 21 compressed hydrogen, Chrysler installed it in one 22 of its demonstrations. These types of advanced 23 technology come really, I think, of a potential 24 to become an economic engine for the State of New 25 Jersey. We don't have to trade economic progress GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 212 1 for clean air progress, they can go hand in hand. 2 New Jersey should position itself to 3 become a nucleus for these types of things 4 beginning by requiring auto manufacturers to 5 start paying more attention to these types of 6 technologies. 7 Also to reduce the high levels of 8 diesel particulates in the state, it is good that 9 the EPA recently passed, we should take what we 10 have learned and expand it to off-road vehicles 11 and look at some of the particulates that 12 Mr. Flint was talking about earlier. 13 In the short term, we think that the 14 Smart Growth idea is looking at ways to reduce 15 vehicle miles traveled with improved 16 transit-friendly design, energy-efficient 17 building standards, urban redevelopment, and 18 renewable energy projects, all of these things 19 have potential to help us clean our air. 20 So, in conclusion, New Jersey and 21 the nation as a whole is at a crossroads. On the 22 one hand we have clean air and a vital economy 23 fueled by energy efficiency and on the other hand 24 we have the status quo were we agree that air is 25 contaminated by the combustion byproducts of GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 213 1 fossil fuels, and other states like California 2 and New York are in the better position of 3 becoming the nucleus of clean air technologies 4 and for the long-term health of its citizens and 5 the environment, we sincerely hope New Jersey 6 will make the right turn. 7 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 8 much, and thank you for bringing in the cars this 9 afternoon, that was a smart move, it was a bold 10 strike, so to speak, and we really appreciate it. 11 It was fun looking at them and chatting with the 12 folks who brought them. Thank you for being here. 13 Any questions? 14 DR. MANGANELLI: I would like to 15 commend Travis on his excellent presentation and 16 thank him for the excellent ideas that he brought 17 forward to the Council. 18 MR. ALI: I saw three of the cars in 19 the back of the building. Do you have any idea 20 how many of those are on the roads in New Jersey, 21 are they used or just on display. 22 MR. MADSEN: Three cars we had out 23 there, one is a natural gas -- we have 1800 I 24 hear, 1800 plus, so the natural gas program is 25 pretty big. I know of seeing electric cars that GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 214 1 the DOT is using in Trenton and other parts of 2 the state to help people commute from the train 3 station to places where they work, so those are 4 left over from a demonstration project a couple 5 years back. And the gasoline electric hybrids 6 have taken off, they have been introduced to the 7 market in the last couple years by Honda and 8 Toyota. 9 (At which time there was a 10 discussion held off the record.) 11 MR. ALI: The other question is the 12 SUV. Everybody is talking about this, it is a 13 popular car, van, and how is it being popular 14 with the young people, you must be familiar with 15 the young generation, what can you to really 16 promote the negative effects of the SUV's to the 17 young generation? 18 DR. BIELORY: If we go into a 19 recession, they won't have the money. You have 20 to pay more for your bottle of water than you do 21 for the gallon of gas. A bottle of water costs 22 $2.00 and a gallon of gas costs $2.00. 23 (At which time there was a 24 discussion held off the record.) 25 MR. MADSEN: I hear that will get GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 215 1 35, 40 miles to a gallon. Ford plans on 2 introducing one and there's been some 3 demonstrated applications of fuel cells in things 4 as large as submarines, so I don't see why they 5 couldn't put one in a SUV. 6 MR. ALI: I don't know who is 7 promoting it, but whoever is doing it is 8 effective promotion for SUV's and possibly that 9 promotion can be used for something else to be 10 positive. 11 MR. MADSEN: Sounds like a good 12 idea, thank you. 13 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Mr. Paul, 14 Stephen Paul. 15 DR. PAUL: My name is Stephen Paul. 16 I am from Princeton University. I am no stranger 17 to the committee. I think I came and gave a talk 18 once back in about 1994, 1995. This is in a 19 completely different subject and what I'd like to 20 mention to you, and I am glad to be able to bring 21 to your attention today is not so much a 22 restatement of the problem in a direction where I 23 feel we need to go as much as I can be true to 24 innovative solutions for clean air, and I think I 25 have at least a partial solution to some of the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 216 1 issues that were brought up in the brochure that 2 was handed out. I went through it fairly 3 carefully, and I think I have e at least somewhat 4 of an answer for the possible innovations in 5 alternative energy that can be used in energy 6 that can benefit the citizens. In there, it 7 talked about less dependence on imported 8 petroleum products, energy security, avoidance -- 9 in order to become much less vulnerable to 10 terrorists attacks, et cetera. 11 I wanted to bring to your attention 12 an alternative fuel that was a introduced by the 13 Department of Energy back in 1999 that is 14 non-petroleum, largely renewable and a good bit 15 cleaner -- a good bit on lower emissions than 16 gasoline running in the same automobile. What I 17 wanted to also bring up to point is that there 18 are many tens of thousands of alternative fueled 19 vehicles on the road already not owned by the 20 state. As a matter of fact, most of the owners 21 don't even know they're alternative fuel 22 vehicles Chrysler has been putting out, Ford has 23 been putting out in their Taurus and Rangers and 24 Chrysler in their Voyager and Caravan, mini-vans 25 and GM in their SUV, cars known are flexible GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 217 1 alternative fuel vehicles that can run on 2 alternative fuels. The benefits of those 3 vehicles have not been realized in this part of 4 the country because they have been designed to 5 run on ethanol. Ethanol is a good fuel to use if 6 it is available, but most of it is available in 7 the Midwest, there is no real infrastructure to 8 bring it out to the East. 9 I took a look at the design of the 10 cars back in 1996, and I designed a fuel for 11 those cars that was much, much less dependent 12 than ethanol. It is the -- the fuel came to be 13 known as a P-Series and this is an actual copy of 14 the website that the alternative fuels data 15 center, which is part of the Department of Energy 16 has to their website. As I said, 1999 it was 17 approved by the Department of Energy as an 18 alternative fuel, and it happens to be a 19 home-grown idea from New Jersey, and I think this 20 is one of the innovative ways that New Jersey can 21 not only follow other states, but actually leap 22 out in front. The very, very important point is 23 the fuel is made out of materials that have not 24 been able to be used before, people have been 25 trying for many, many years in order to make GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 218 1 ethanol out of biomass, and the National 2 Renewable Energy Laboratory, one of its main 3 reasons for existence has tried to find out a way 4 to make ethanol as opposed to sugar cane which is 5 how it is made now, but this is a fuel that is 6 made largely out of cellulosic biomass, that is 7 paper, paper mill sludge, wet paper, agricultural 8 waste, food waste, and urban/industrial wood 9 waste and it can be turned into more fuel 10 components. It also uses another component 11 called hemicellulosic biomass which is a large 12 part of corncob that has not been able to be used 13 economically to be transformed into ethanol. And 14 since there is a lot of wood and a lot of 15 cellulose waste in the area as opposed to a great 16 deal of corn in Metropolitan New York and 17 Philadelphia, this is a fuel that can be produced 18 locally. 19 I am not going to go into any of the 20 fuel properties. If you are interested in 21 taking a look at that, please grab a hand-out or 22 you can go to the alternative fuel data center 23 website which is right here. 24 All I wanted to do was take a look 25 for a couple minutes at the benefits and be able GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 219 1 to explain to you why and how using such an 2 alternative fuel, again in existing cars with 3 existing fuel distribution technology, this is a 4 liquid fuel that mixes with gasoline. It does 5 not require development of a huge infrastructure, 6 it uses, for the most part, conventional liquid 7 fuel dispensing technology; as a matter of fact, 8 once it is inside the car, it can be mixed freely 9 with gasoline, there are no issues of complicated 10 fuel management that the owner of the vehicle has 11 to deal with. If you have half a tank of this, 12 you can put in half a tank of gasoline and vice 13 versa, which means that even during the time when 14 the infrastructure is being built up, you don't 15 have people who are being stranded on the roads. 16 And, indeed, that is one of the major concerns of 17 fleet managers, here you can purchase the cars, 18 use it on gasoline if needed, but, of course, you 19 can also use the alternative fuel. 20 But the emission reductions are 21 really quite substantial and they are more or 22 less summarized: It displaces gasoline on about a 23 one-to-one basis; in other words, for about every 24 gallon that is used of this alternative fuel, it 25 displaces roughly a gallon of gasoline. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 220 1 It is made from over 60 percent 2 renewable resources, made from 100 percent 3 non-petroleum resources, essentially sulfur-free; 4 has an oxygen content that is higher than the 5 oxygenated fuels, about 19 percent, that is going 6 to be the cases as with a biomasterite fuel but 7 the emission products are, in my mind, fairly 8 impressive, a 49 percent decrease in non-methane 9 hydrocarbons and another premium grade 55 percent 10 decrease, regular in terms of the carbon monoxide 11 showed 24 percent decrease, premium showed 25 12 percent decrease and given the number of tests 13 that were done on the number of vehicles, a 14 statistical analysis was done and it was shown to 15 show you how much, whether these percentages that 16 I am saying were on sort of wild results that 17 were random because the results were not that 18 repeatable, that is not the case. You can get 19 decreases where the level of statistical 20 significance is quite a bit less than the change. 21 In the last two cases in NOx it was very 22 comparable to gasoline with differences, 16 23 percent being quite different to what you can 24 subscribe to chance. 25 NOx; here is an opportunity where GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 221 1 New Jersey has the opportunity to reduce these 2 emissions. There are cars already out on the 3 roads and it is a material that since it is made 4 from waste biomass can go a long way to even 5 addressing solid waste issues, not only in New 6 Jersey but in other states such as New York. New 7 Jersey may have a thing or two to teach New York 8 also, I think. If New York -- if we help solve 9 NOx, New York solid waste problem in terms of 10 organics that is going to make driving at least 11 down Route One significantly more pleasant 12 experience. 13 And so I have a challenge to the 14 Clean Air Council, I think I have shown to you 15 what at least potentially can be a solution to 16 some of these issues that we are talking about, 17 and I would like you to be able to tell me 18 whether you think this fits into your goals. 19 I can tell you that the Department 20 of Environment Protection, a fairly substantial 21 greenhouse gas reduction program and plan they 22 put in the climate change to the program, they 23 put in the last year or two ago, using this 24 particular fuel was significant components of 25 reducing greenhouse gas emissions in mobile GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 222 1 sources. 2 I would like you to be able to take 3 a look and say, Does this fit in? If it does, I 4 would like to be able to get in contact with some 5 of the people at the Department of Transportation 6 who are responsible for alternative vehicle fuel 7 purchases to see if a liquid gasoline would be 8 acceptable or preferable to where they are headed 9 now and at least to be done in conjunction with 10 it. And would I like very much to see the State 11 fleet become more general or more specific or 12 less concentrated on one alternative fuel and see 13 if this fits into the programs. 14 I think unlike the compressed 15 natural gas concentration that is there now, if 16 this is used and introduced to New Jersey because 17 there are so many of these vehicles out on the 18 road, I think it could very, very rapidly spread 19 into general use by the population. And as you 20 saw from these reductions, I think that can be a 21 substantial environmental benefit. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you. I 24 have a question on that in terms of products -- 25 by the way, there are people in DOT who do GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 223 1 alternative fuels. Mike is here from the 2 Office of Innovative Technology. You get good 3 attention for it. 4 But in terms of products and you 5 know all of that kind of stuff, is this fuel used 6 anywhere else, currently, is this something that 7 has just come up relatively recently. 8 DR. PAUL: The fuel has been used 9 for a year in the test demonstration City of 10 Philadelphia, it is not commercially available 11 and part of that reason is in this climate 12 investors are somewhat reluctant to put in big 13 investments until they are certain that there is 14 a customer base out there. And the customer 15 base is interested and asked the question that 16 you asked, well, is it out there in the market, 17 anything that can be done, state fleets are 18 fertile grounds are for this. Anything that can 19 be done to show that there is acceptance, and it 20 is convenient and that it works will go a long, 21 long way to getting the financial community 22 interested. It is a critical part. 23 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: I think the Town 24 of Medford Lakes as well as the N.J. Transit -- 25 yes, N.J. Transit, Hamilton, are both running a GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 224 1 biodiesel demonstration project, they have been 2 doing that for a couple years. Sharon is the 3 one that you want to talk to. 4 DR. PAUL: This is a fuel for 5 regular spark-ignited gasoline engines, this in 6 particular is not a diesel fuel but does share 7 some of the advantages. 8 DR. BIELORY: It can be used in cars 9 in existence today? 10 THE WITNESS: Flexible fuel 11 vehicles. 12 DR. BIELORY: What vehicles, selected 13 vehicles that are out? 14 DR. PAUL: Since 1998, the Dodge 15 Caravan, the 3.3 liter engine has been made with 16 this. The Ford Taurus, a large portion of the 17 Ford Taurus vehicles that are produced have this 18 capacity. 19 DR. BIELORY: You are probably 20 correct. Has anybody done a survey of the owners 21 of these vehicles whether they realize that. 22 DR. PAUL: You have to dig into the 23 owner's manual. 24 DR. BIELORY: They don't know that 25 they have this. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 225 1 DR. PAUL: Most people don't know, 2 this is made from biomass, making ethanol fuel in 3 New Jersey is going to be difficult because most 4 of it is grown in Kansas and Nebraska. 5 DR. BIELORY: We had a presentation 6 about something like this, the question. 7 DR. PAUL: Ethanol is a component 8 for the fuel, use it as an octane additive and 9 clearly anything that we can do to make that 10 locally, and I know the New Jersey Farm Bureau is 11 interested in that, that would be of tremendous 12 help, it is a natural. 13 DR. BIELORY: I am trying to bridge 14 the concept in a report, the concept is 15 intriguing, meaning it is out there, the question 16 is: Do you have a sample station for these Dodge 17 Caravans to pull up, what would be the cost per 18 gallon, if there was one? 19 DR. PAUL: I have estimates on the 20 cost per gallon, it depends a great deal, since 21 this is waste biomass, it has a great deal to do 22 with what the cost is of the waste material that 23 you get. My given standard fees for disposal, 24 this fuel would have cost between one twenty-five 25 and one-forty a gallon at the pump with taxes. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 226 1 DR. BIELORY: I would ask the Chair 2 if we could get a summary of that. I would like 3 to see it when we come to make the report just to 4 think about it. 5 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Sure, whatever 6 we can. 7 DR. PAUL: If you ask for more 8 information or you want me directly for more 9 information, if you go to the website, it will 10 take you to other links that explain it. But 11 there is no financial analysis on it because that 12 is not really appropriate for the Department of 13 Energy website. 14 MR. McCARTY: What is involved in 15 the process in converting this and what possible 16 emissions and things should we be concerned about 17 in this conversion? Is this going to, in making 18 this good fuel, is that going to create another 19 problem that we are going to have to worry about 20 in 10 years, I don't know. 21 A VOICE: I understand, it is a 22 completely valid point and if there are any 23 chemical conversion processes, there are 24 emissions. And I can tell you that the emissions 25 that are from the ethanol part of it are fairly GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 227 1 well known because there are ethanol plants all 2 over the country dealing with waste biomass is a 3 little bit more difficult to deal with because 4 the inhomogeneity of the materials that you are 5 getting play a role. All of it is controllable. 6 This is not -- this is a digestion or a 7 liquefaction process, it is not a combustions 8 process. In the course of making this fuel you 9 don't burn things the way that you do in an oil 10 refinery. A great deal of energy is used in 11 order to make gasoline. This does not actually 12 even use oxygen in the air, there is no burning, 13 there is -- it is almost a digestion process; 14 however, to use a pun that is appropriate here, 15 you have the issue of garbage in and garbage out. 16 Any material that comes in, for example, is 17 metallic is not going to be made into fuel, but 18 it is not going to disappear. 19 So if you have anywhere from safety 20 pins to batteries that make it past the screening 21 process, that is going to be left in the residue. 22 You are no worse off than you were when you 23 started except for one thing, it is more 24 concentrated than it was before. 25 If you take a stream and every GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 228 1 single stream has, for example, heavy metals in 2 it and then you take all the organics out of it 3 which is 97 percent and then the concentration 4 goes up. That don't mean that you are making 5 pollution, just means that you are concentrating 6 it. And some people would say it is more 7 management what is going to come out of the tail 8 ends of this but not in the fuel is all the waste 9 that goes into it and that has to be disposed of, 10 of course. Now, whether you say that this thing 11 actually makes that pollution or not is, to me, 12 is a question of semantics, whatever goes in and 13 isn't used, is going to come out. 14 MR. McCARTY: The fermentation 15 process you are going to have high VOC and you 16 are also going to have -- 17 DR. PAUL: In this case, this is 18 not a fermentation process. 19 MR. McCARTY: Digestion is going to 20 create VOC, isn't it? 21 DR. PAUL: It's going to create 22 VOC's, there is no question about it, that can be 23 put into a gasifier and actually used to make 24 nitrogen for the process. This can be talked 25 about in great detail. I am not going to tell GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 229 1 you that there is no -- there has to be, any time 2 you are converting, that kind of degradation is 3 occurring also. If you take this trash and put 4 it into a landfill, that is happening there too, 5 everybody knows where the methane and other 6 chemicals come out it, that is going to happen 7 regardless. The question is, can you put it in a 8 spot where you can control it, manage it and use 9 the waste as opposed to trying to put it in a 10 hole in somebody else's state and trying to 11 forget about it. 12 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you. 13 MR. CURRY: Good afternoon. My name 14 is Jim Curry, and I am representing the 15 Environmental Education Fund located here in 16 Trenton, and we are the research and education 17 arm of the New Jersey Environmental Lobby. EEF 18 does research and outreach in support of our own 19 educational mandate and to aid the operations of 20 the lobby, which is a organization of over 100 21 local, regional and state groups as well as over 22 1,000 individual members. 23 I am here today to talk in response 24 to the issue of air pollution about two things 25 that I think is a consensus that is the most GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 230 1 critical areas of attack that address air 2 pollution, one being transportation and two being 3 power generation. 4 At the risk of being repetitive to 5 all the wonderful speakers that came before me 6 about the Low Emission Vehicle II Standard, I 7 will be brief on that. I guess one of the 8 things that people used to argue against 9 legislation is that it is an economic burden that 10 we shouldn't have to bear, and it isn't worth the 11 public health benefits that you would gain by 12 doing it. In fact, the California Resources 13 Board, which are the originators put out a study, 14 '99 or 2000, concluding that LEV II standards 15 would cost only about $70.00 to implement for a 16 regular car, passenger car, and about $200.00 for 17 a light truck or SUV, Ford 150, Ford Explorer, 18 something like that. So, in essence, to a 19 consumer purchasing a new car, these costs are 20 somewhat inconsequential compared to the overall 21 costs of buying a car. But the investment that 22 costs like this that makes into public health, I 23 would imagine, I don't know what the exact 24 figures are, would be an excellent investment in 25 public health, reducing health care costs that we GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 231 1 incur from increased asthma rates, increased 2 diseases of all kind that occur from air 3 pollution, from transportation. I think we 4 should look to the majority support that this 5 legislation has in our government. Very quickly 6 when it as introduced, it received majority 7 support in both the Senate and Assembly which was 8 impressive and really underlines the necessity 9 for a program like this in New Jersey, so we 10 support this LEV II and hope that it goes 11 through. 12 In the area of power generation, New 13 Jersey residents have few but still limited 14 choices for cleaner power. Right now, you can 15 buy electric power from Green Mountain Energy, 16 there are a few thousand people in New Jersey 17 that do this, it is a little more expensive, it 18 is a little more expensive than your standard 19 utility power, but a lot of it is made from wind 20 energy which has no emissions, from solar energy. 21 I think they also include low-impact hydropower 22 in there as well. So that is an option for New 23 Jersey residents but not something that most 24 residents really know about. 25 In addition, as a speaker before GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 232 1 touched on, we have the New Jersey Clean Energy 2 program which was set up by legislation in 1999 3 and provides lots of money every year for 4 efficiency and renewable energy programs. When 5 it was first implemented, in 1999, it was $350 6 million over the next four years for these 7 projects. And as the previous speaker said, this 8 money comes not from taxes but from a fraction of 9 a cent per kilowatt-hour charge his utility bill 10 which altogether comes out to be quite a bit of 11 money and helpful for this program. 12 What you can do with New Jersey 13 Clean Air Energy Program, it can help the 14 homeowner, the business owner, to purchase energy 15 power sources that they can site at their 16 businesses, homes, solar panels, wind power and 17 the fund provides rebates that defray up to 60 18 percent of the costs, both for equipment and 19 installation and on most of these renewables that 20 are covered under the program are zero emissions. 21 And even when you look at them over the 22 life-cycle costs, their emissions are lower than 23 if you were to purchase your 44 them H coal-fired 24 power plant, oil or gas. The program has 25 actually been quite successful so far, still has GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 233 1 a few problems. 2 In some ways the program has been a 3 success. I believe between December 2001 until 4 now, we have both proposals and actual projects 5 that will be getting up to 2.5 megawatts of new 6 and proposed solar photovoltaic power 7 installations, enough power if we were to 8 harness, power 1,250 homes. We have come a long 9 way recently from where we had been. This is 10 promising. 11 There are some problems with the 12 program, problems associated with one of the 13 benefits which is net metering which is install 14 these technologies and sell power back to the 15 utilities to cover costs of power that you are 16 buying at night if you had a solar panel. There 17 are caps on the amount of power that you can sell 18 back which are becoming, more so for our 19 commercial and business customers, kind of a 20 roadblock for the development, for example, 21 vocational technical school in Kearney recently 22 installed a 55 kilowatt solar panel array and 23 because of their status, they fall into the 24 categories, under the regulations, that they can 25 only sell back power at 10 kilowatts or less so GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 234 1 they are making extra power that they can't sell 2 back. It is a regulation that needs to be 3 changed. 4 Obviously, the rebates have stirred 5 much interest in the residential communities so 6 there is a desire for this technology and moving 7 this roadblock would help a lot. The problem 8 where the clean energy problem is in its 9 administration, there is a staff at each of the 10 seven utilities that is charged with making up 11 regulations for the people that fall into that 12 utility and administering the program funds. 13 Initially, this sounds reasonable but you see in 14 other states like New York the mandate for 15 managing the fund has been handled much more 16 efficiently by an independent statewide 17 administrator. And actually an audit process is 18 going on right now for the project that will 19 decide whether or not utilities will continue to 20 be able to manage these funds or it will be 21 appointed to meet independent administrator. 22 In addition, as far as power 23 products, we can do a lot in our state to offset 24 the problems, air pollution cost by fossil 25 powered electric industry. We have to look at GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 235 1 the power generation; air pollution comes from 2 power plants that are operating without controls 3 for decades and hopefully not continue to do so. 4 New Jersey and other states in the Northeast must 5 continue to pursue all available options to force 6 these power plants to reduce their emissions. 7 We're proud of our state's efforts in the area 8 but dismayed, as previous speakers have 9 expressed, by our federal government's proposed 10 roll-back of regulations governing these plants. 11 The transportation and energy 12 programs represent important steps in the ongoing 13 process to reduce air pollution in our state. 14 We are realizing that it is against our interests 15 to burn finite resources to provide power for our 16 daily needs. Clean sources of power, both 17 stationary and mobile, can over us positive 18 changes in our quality of life. Clean power is 19 also an economically sound solution, providing 20 jobs for workers and the capacity to achieve 21 economic growth, not economic ruin, as those that 22 oppose such energy choices would claim. In 23 fact, several studies have predicted that per kWH 24 produced, renewable energy creates more jobs than 25 fossil fuel energy. New Jersey PIRG predicts GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 236 1 that with the modest increases in renewable power 2 use, New Jersey could see a net gain of 20,200 3 jobs by 2010. 4 In conclusion, New Jersey faces an 5 uncertain future. The question, do we hold fast 6 to the status quo or harness existing and 7 practical technologies and policies for our 8 energy needs? We, really must do the latter for 9 the sake of public health, the economy and our 10 quality of life. 11 Thank you. Any questions. 12 (No response.) 13 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: I appreciate the 14 fact that you gave us a source guide here in your 15 testimony; that is very good, thank you very 16 much. 17 We have Marie Curtis up next. 18 MS. CURTIS: Good afternoon. I am 19 Marie Curtis, Executive Director of the New 20 Jersey Environmental Lobby and as our previous 21 speaker mentioned, we do represent roughly 100 22 local, regional and statewide organizations and 23 in addition, we have another 1,000 individual 24 members and we have a long history of fighting 25 for cleaner air here in New Jersey. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 237 1 It is almost a decade since we first 2 supported the California car program here in New 3 Jersey, but our legislators at that time weren't 4 primed to listen to us. In fact, two of them 5 actually laughed and we then promoted the idea of 6 electric vehicles, including then Jersey Central 7 & Power and Light before it become GPU, before it 8 came back to Jersey Central Power & Light, and we 9 worked hard and long on that, but we were told by 10 the legislators that those cars wouldn't be ready 11 for decades and here we are today with electric 12 hybrids and some pure electric automobiles on 13 the road, and some of have them right here for 14 demonstration purposes at noon today. 15 This is all very good for our air 16 and good for our economy, but there are other 17 areas that produce even more air pollution per 18 engine but we seem to ignore the possibility of 19 regulation or change in these sectors. I will 20 refer as Jeff Tuttle did briefly earlier to the 21 most polluting of machinery, the off-road 22 vehicles and mechanisms that have no catalytic 23 converters and merely spew their emissions into 24 the air. 25 We all know about the two-stroke GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 238 1 engines, the things that power jet skis and 2 snowmobiles; those are the most polluting in the 3 world. In one hour, they can emit the 4 equivalent of the pollution from 100 cars. Here 5 is where we have to turn our attention, I 6 believe, and soon. At least two manufacturers 7 are currently making four-stroke, less polluting 8 engines for such recreation vehicles. This is a 9 step in the right direction, we should encourage 10 such moves. I know that the greater Yellowstone 11 area is fostering the use of these four-stroke 12 engines because of pollution in Yellowstone 13 National Park. 14 Other machinery that pollutes our 15 air off-road, includes construction vehicles, 16 things like gasoline lawn motors, leaf blowers 17 and the like. Now it would be nice if we can 18 make these pollution devices disappear, but we 19 know we can't do that. However, we can regulate 20 their use, especially on high ozone alert days. 21 We know that we have the means to alert the 22 public in advance when we anticipate a high ozone 23 day, we already do that. The Department of 24 Environmental Protection does that for us and 25 they do a good job by and large. We then ask GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 239 1 our seniors , our children and other populations 2 at risk to take appropriate measures to stay 3 indoors on such days. Wouldn't it make equally 4 good sense to limit the discretionary use of such 5 polluting machinery on these days? If we 6 alerted the homeowner, perhaps to the 7 discretionary use and how he would be 8 contributing to an already bad health situation, 9 it would make these users aware of the dangerous 10 emissions that are involved in what they are 11 doing and perhaps it would make people think 12 twice when the time comes for a replacement lawn 13 mower,maybe then we will look at the electric 14 mower instead. 15 We are limiting water usage already 16 because of the drought; is air pollution with its 17 attendant asthma, emphysema, and other related 18 any less serious a problem? I would say no. We 19 are not comfortable to ask the public to forego 20 work-saving devices, yet the price we pay in 21 public health is far too high. When we have 22 harnessed the power of the wind, sun, waves, 23 tides and other natural energy sources, then we 24 can consider the unbridled use of 25 electrically-powered machines. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 240 1 Our citizens are, by and large, 2 responsible people. When they understand a 3 problem, they respond and try to help. After 4 9/11, people wanted to pitch in and do something. 5 If the health consequences of unregulated use of 6 pollution machines is explained to them, the 7 people of New Jersey will do the right thing and 8 respect limits when the ozone is too high. We 9 would urge the Council to advise the Department 10 of Environmental Protection to set such limits. 11 We believe that government leads 12 best by setting a positive example. Already 13 state government is employing vehicles powered by 14 compressed natural gas and electricity. This is 15 very, very good; in fact, we would like to see 16 more publicity about those vehicles and their 17 programs. Let our citizens know government is 18 doing the right thing. We do commend their 19 efforts, but it should go even further, 20 government grounds and parks should be maintained 21 with non-polluting machines. I know that, for 22 instance, the grounds around the State Museum 23 across the street from my office, they use rakes 24 and push mowers and the like to take care of the 25 grounds over there and we really commend them for GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 241 1 it. Getting behind Transit Check is another 2 means for government to encourage its employees 3 to use mass transit. This has already begun, 4 and it is another step on for a cleaner air. 5 With government setting an example, 6 we can then provide incentives for citizens to 7 follow that lead. Rebates on the purchase of 8 alternate fuel vehicles and assistance in 9 establishing an infrastructure that allows the 10 refueling of compressed natural gas or electric 11 recharging stations is another way to promote 12 cleaner cars. And I was very happy also to hear 13 Jeff mention the employer reduction program, that 14 is something that we worked long and hard on. 15 We worked with DOT, and I thought we had some 16 innovative ideas and programs and then the 17 program become voluntarily and not mandatory and 18 it was no more. Increasing the limit as well on 19 net metering, as you heard, for those who produce 20 renewable energy is another means of providing 21 help for cleaner air. Working with firms, you 22 heard about Millennium Cell in Eatontown, I would 23 suggest that H-Power in Belleville is another 24 one, working with those firms to perfect and use 25 fuel cell technology is the direction we should GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 242 1 be working. 2 The technology is here today and 3 maybe more perfecting and streamlining. Fuel 4 cells, however, already power homes and 5 businesses in northern Canada where power lines 6 cannot reach. Those fuel cells to power homes 7 and businesses come from New Jersey, H-Power in 8 Belleville. The power of the waves was tested 9 and harnessed right here off the coast of New 10 Jersey about three years ago. It was an 11 experiment monitored by the U.S. Navy who called 12 it a huge successes. There was enough power 13 generated in an uninterrupted fashion for 12 14 straight months to provide power for 240 homes 15 and after saying it was a huge success, the U.S. 16 Navy set off and we have never heard again. 17 These are things that we should be 18 looking into. In Canada, very recently, we read 19 of a blue energy underwater rotor that was 20 successfully used to harness power in the tides, 21 and this rotor is safe enough and moves slowly 22 enough that fish can swim around it and there is 23 at least, to date, there's been no discernible 24 environmental impact and all of this was done at 25 a minimal cost, either on a par with or cheaper GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 243 1 than we are producing energy today with fossil 2 fuels. 3 We can't continue to rely on 4 energy-based on fossil fuels. That road has led 5 to foreign policy dictated by oil dependency and 6 pollutes our air and it threatens our health. 7 Now is the time to move ahead with an increased 8 renewable standard in our state energy policy. 9 Now is the time to encourage new businesses and 10 renewable approaches to business. Our economy 11 will thrive, jobs will be created and the air 12 will be clean enough to breathe freely once 13 again. 14 Thank you. Any questions? 15 MR. EGENTON: Marie, you hit on some 16 pretty interesting topics. There is a program at 17 New Jersey Transit when there is a high ozone 18 day, I think that is well served, it can 19 obviously be publicized a little better, but I 20 know through the chamber we sent it out when we 21 get the alert from people and the incentive there 22 is a couple of our employees on staff will 23 actually opt to take the train that day and get a 24 discount. 25 What I complain to the New Jersey GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 244 1 Transit folks is that I ran into a problem last 2 year and the year before that some of the train 3 conductors were unaware of the discount, and I 4 said you have to get the message out there if you 5 are trying to promote that. But you are right, 6 incentives like that work, and I am glad it was 7 brought up at the Council last year and the year 8 before about we need to do more on the public 9 side of things in educating the public, you know, 10 John, go about the lawn motors, the gas grills, 11 the fireplaces and things like that. 12 Obviously, over the years, industry 13 has tried to do their part with installing 14 state-of-art technology. We are looking at 15 pollution now, whether through I&M or through the 16 use of alternative fuel vehicles, what have you, 17 you are right, the focus needs to be -- that is 18 the hardest part, to convince the actual citizen 19 what you can do. And I think there's got to be 20 some type of outreach and education made through 21 all of us collectively, whether through state 22 government, business and the like to get the word 23 out to the public what we will do. If there is 24 a way to do that rather than mandating it and 25 getting them to see the side of it and the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 245 1 benefits of it, I think that is what we should 2 pursue. 3 I am glad you mentioned that, it is 4 a big hurdle but I think down the road, I would 5 rather see us voluntarily doing it than making it 6 a strict mandate, getting people to realize you, 7 as an individual, can contribute to help the 8 problem. 9 MS. CURTIS: I agree with you, I do 10 think that letting people know, using that 11 machinery when we are on an ozone alert date, I 12 think that getting that word out will help to do 13 that public education and says, oh, my gosh, I 14 shouldn't do it on a high ozone date, maybe I 15 should be thinking twice about using it, you 16 know. And as I said, it is not going to come 17 immediately but perhaps when you have to buy that 18 replacement mower or something, I know it is very 19 difficult. I work long and hard. 20 MR. EGENTON: When I looked into 21 it, it was expensive back then, the price has 22 changed now and starting to come down, but I 23 think, as I said, it's the key to the education 24 element of it, and I commend you for bringing 25 that up. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 246 1 MS. CURTIS: Thank you very much. 2 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you. Jane 3 Tousman is next. 4 MS. JANE TOUSMAN: I am Jane 5 Tousman. I am here today on behalf of Sierra, 6 but I also was a member of the New Jersey Clean 7 Air Council, somebody that sat in one of these 8 chairs that you gentlemen are all sitting in 9 today. 10 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: When was that? 11 MS. JANE TOUSMAN: I think in the 12 '80s. 13 I am here today about land use. I 14 know you have heard a lot about it today, but I 15 do specialize in land use, and I do a lot of 16 workshops on land use and to me, something that I 17 found that I was not happy with is when I looked 18 at the municipal land use lay for the State of 19 New Jersey, I discovered that one ingredient was 20 really lacking, it just wasn't there and that 21 ingredient which was lacking was the circulation 22 plan. In other words, at the beginning of the 23 municipal land use law there are goals that the 24 law is supposed to achieve, and you have about 25 two things like housing plans, which you do have GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 247 1 to have in your master plan, but lacking was a 2 circulation plan, and I don't know how we can 3 afford the luxury of not having a circulation 4 plan mandated in every single master plan of 566 5 municipalities that we spoke about. I think it 6 is important that a circulation plan should be 7 there. 8 Also, there should be a utility 9 plan. We talked about roads and growth and 10 sprawl, and I think that a utility plan should 11 also be there, we want to know where our future 12 growth is and how we are going to accommodate it. 13 I think with the roads and the infrastructure 14 that is also an important thing that happens. 15 The other things that I was curious 16 about, something that I had an involvement with 17 when I was on the New Jersey Clean Air Council is 18 the County Health Act. I understand that we 19 still fund the County Health Act but one of my 20 assignments when I was on the Council was to 21 determine exactly how the different counties were 22 using this money and exactly what they were doing 23 with it and was it really working? We are 24 talking about doing more with less. 25 Well, here is some money that goes GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 248 1 out to the counties and it seems to me that they 2 are not doing as much as they used to do. I 3 used to be able to get out of Middlesex County a 4 traffic plan on anything that had a significant 5 impact, and that basically what I am finding now 6 it doesn't exist. It may exist for a lot of 7 other things, but it doesn't exist for a traffic 8 study and I think here again, if we are spending 9 this money on monitoring hazardous waste and 10 other things, I think we should really do an 11 inventory and try to see exactly how it is 12 working and what the money is being used for 13 because the big thing with air quality is 14 enforcements, and up can't have enforcement 15 unless you have counties that will really go 16 after it. So that is what I am looking at. 17 The last thing that I would like to 18 emphasize here is that I really feel that air 19 quality is one of those hidden entities that lots 20 of people know very little about, and that's 21 because there's very little public education 22 about all these things. We hear about acid 23 rain, we hear about global warming, but basically 24 we don't know too much about all of these things. 25 At one point in your history you put out a GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 249 1 publication which I am sure Dr. Manganelli would 2 remember which is this publication which made A, 3 B, C out of what is important in air quality. I 4 think that if we are not going to have defeats 5 like we had on the air quality, more mileage out 6 of cars that we suffered in the Congress, we need 7 to have more of an audience that is interested in 8 air quality and that just doesn't happen with the 9 snap of a finger. I think that possibly there 10 needs to be more outreach into the educational 11 community. 12 And also with some of the tools that 13 I have heard the EPA talk about as a way of 14 making very, very clear what the problems are 15 with air quality so that not only the people that 16 are affected by asthma, not only the people who 17 are having lung cancer but actually the 18 individual will know how important air quality 19 is, and maybe even in terms of putting things 20 like trees as buffers between residential areas 21 and commercial areas or just having more plants 22 in your house. Maybe there are other things 23 that are important to air quality, but we do need 24 to educate the public on how important it is and 25 maybe this group could be the one to have the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 250 1 seminar or get some word out to some of the 2 school systems, and really start pushing it 3 because we really do need it. Air is a 4 tremendous quality, clear air is something that 5 we all need and I would hope that you would take 6 me up in my suggestions. 7 Thank you very much. 8 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you. We 9 agree with you, and as a matter of fact, we 10 almost knew what you were going to say. About 11 two weeks ago we held an educational summit for 12 high school kids, Middlesex County Community 13 College. There were many people involved in it, 14 we bused kids from three different counties and 15 Dr. Bielory put on an educational seminar on 16 asthma and we went into breakout sessions, we 17 spent the day and it was great. 18 MR. PAPENBERG: For clarification 19 on the county environmental impact monies that 20 are spent, specifically for the air program, 21 there are two programs that the counties conduct; 22 one is the inspection of gas stations, the Stage 23 II vehicle recovery systems and the other is the 24 permits permitting for the different HVAC systems 25 that service large buildings over a million BTUs. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 251 1 Those are the programs that the e county gets 2 paid for on the air programs and other programs 3 in water and waste. But I have never been aware 4 of any funding to health departments to look at 5 any type of traffic planning. 6 MRS. TOUSMAN: I think that came out 7 of the county budget, but it could be an 8 incentive. Maybe you could provide some 9 incentive for it. There really should be. Seems 10 to me the county has regional interest and we 11 really need to coordinate traffic and so maybe -- 12 at one time I know Middlesex County did have such 13 a program, I imagine it came out of the taxpayer 14 dollars that go to the county, but I would still 15 like to see more of it and maybe there is some 16 way you could encourage, without having to offer 17 money or anything, counties to do that again on 18 large projects and you would have to define what 19 a large project is and have the experts do that 20 for you, but it would be very important. 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: We have Alice 23 Gitchell from Richard Stockton College. 24 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: My name is 25 Alice Gitchell, and I am the project GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 252 1 administrator for the Stockton College Geothermal 2 Project, and I also work as a researcher. 3 The things that I am going to cover 4 are the nature of geothermal technology and a 5 little information about what has happened at 6 Stockton. And then I want to talk about how what 7 we have learned at Stockton can be applied to the 8 New Jersey School Facilities Construction Program 9 which you may know is the largest public works 10 program that the state has undertaken in many 11 years. I am also going to talk a little bit 12 about the comparative economics and energy 13 savings associated with geothermal technology. 14 To begin by discussing geothermal 15 technology, what I am talking about is a 16 technology which allows us to take heat from the 17 ground in order to warm buildings. It also 18 allows us to put unwanted heat into the ground 19 during the air-conditioning season when we need 20 to cool buildings. I am talking about a 21 technology used for HVAC in order to save energy. 22 In nature, when you get a few feet 23 below the ground surface, the temperature is 55 24 degrees Fahrenheit all year round. What this 25 means is a great deal of heat is available. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 253 1 However, heat and temperature are not the same 2 thing; therefore, in order to get the temperature 3 that we want within a building, we use a heat 4 pump and that is the same device that is used in 5 your household refrigerator or a window air 6 conditioner that allows you basically to separate 7 hot from cold and put what you want where you 8 want it. So you can have heat in the building, 9 in the winter and cold goes out into the ground, 10 you can have cool air in a building in the 11 summer and the excess heat goes out into the 12 ground. 13 The exchange of heat between 14 building and ground is accomplished through the 15 use of a bore hole heat exchange field, and I 16 gave you a little graphic on this hand-out, 17 looks to me like that is a school building and 18 what you see is piping that goes into the ground. 19 In that piping you can have water or perhaps 20 water interface that circulates with heat in the 21 ground. This is simple technology, basically 22 you are not making heat, instead of heating a 23 building by using fuel, you are heating a 24 building by taking the heat and putting it where 25 you want it. So you are moving heat around and GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 254 1 this is accomplished through the use of 2 electricity because you need to pump the water 3 through the loop and move the air around in the 4 building as you would with any heating and 5 cooling system. 6 Most of the college classrooms and 7 office space at Stockton State is heated and 8 cooled geothermally. This project was not 9 installed when the college was built in 1970, but 10 rather planning again around 1990 when it was 11 obvious that the 20-year old heating and cooling 12 system of the college would require an upgrade. 13 So Stockton's retrofit is very 14 large. It is 1,600 tons of cooling capacity 15 which is how we measure the size of these 16 systems, and to give you something to picture 17 that is about the size of three large high 18 schools. A high school might have a cooling 19 capacity, cooling need of about 500 tons. 20 Our geothermal bore hole field is 21 under one of the parking lots. It is a bit over 22 three acres. I don't think very many people 23 around Stockton know what is under the parking 24 lot. The installation was accomplished 25 basically in one summer after the students left. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 255 1 What we have there are 400 bore holes, and we are 2 careful to call them bore holes, not wells, 3 because in fact they are closed loop and so the 4 water that circulates through the system does not 5 touch the groundwater. 6 The 400 bore holes are each 425 feet 7 deep which means that we have miles of pipe going 8 down into the earth under our parking lot for 9 heat exchange purposes. When all of this piping 10 comes together, it is in a 16-inch pipe, so you 11 can picture the size of the place where the 12 maximum amount of water passes. And that water 13 moves at the rate of 4,000 gallons per minute. 14 Our system does not include antifreeze, it's 15 never been close to a freezing temperature, so 16 that if we have a leak, we are not posing any 17 kind of an environmental hazard. 18 Inside the building, heat pumps take 19 water from this and either extract heat to heat 20 the building or release heat to cool the 21 building, and this is done at a great many 22 different locations, and the advantage of 23 geothermal technology is that it is extremely 24 decentralized. 25 Now, our heat pumps range in size GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 256 1 from three tons, which is small, that is enough 2 to cool a small house, up to about 25 tons, which 3 would not have been our choice but with the 4 retrofit, some of the large units had to be used. 5 It is difficult to cover, to 6 estimate costs but Stockton system has certainly 7 paid for itself. We believe that we are saving 8 about $300,000 per year on fuel costs. Now, if 9 you look on the back of the paper that I gave 10 you, I can tell you how energy use change and 11 this is taken straight from utility bills between 12 1990 and the year 2000, that is before and after 13 our geothermal installation. 14 Despite the size of the pumps that 15 are used for the geothermal system, our electric 16 use dropped. This will not be the case with 17 every geothermal system, but it is the case with 18 ours, and our use of natural gas dropped 19 drastically. We retained a small use of natural 20 gas for perimeter heating. I took all of those 21 numbers and converted them and found that we had 22 a 13 percent drop in our carbon dioxide 23 emissions, that decreased. 24 However, Stockton did not stay the 25 same, no college does. We had a significant GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 257 1 increase in activity. If you look at the 2 right-hand column, the number of students in 3 residence were up 14 percent, full-time students 4 19 percent and the amount of floor space 25 5 percent, so if you adjust for those increases, 6 what you really see is a drop in carbon dioxide 7 emissions, that is somewhere in the 23 to 30 8 percent range. So I feel confident in saying 9 that Stockton dropped its carbon dioxide 10 emissions by 25 percent. 11 And I must point out that we always 12 had an increase in electrical use during that 13 time period because of computerization. I 14 didn't do calculations for nitrates and sulfates, 15 but they are also reduced. 16 Now, knowing what we do about our 17 own system and how it worked, I took a look at 18 the Newark city school construction program 19 because we are engaged in a massive public works 20 endeavor in the Abbott Districts, and I did some 21 calculations to judge what we might gain if we 22 applied geothermal technology in the school 23 program. There are 420 buildings in the Abbott 24 Districts that are scheduled to be replaced, 25 renovated or added to. And I point out that the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 258 1 Abbott Districts are roughly 25 percent of the 2 state's school students so there are still 75 3 percent of students that need buildings that are 4 not covered in that school program. But if your 5 experience is like mine, you know that many 6 school districts are building right now. 7 I looked at Newark and found that 8 in their program, which I think is 40 new schools 9 and 30 major renovations, they needed 204,000 10 tons of cooling capacity, and that if it is done 11 geothermally could be a savings of 15,000 to 12 30,000 tons of carbon dioxide per year. 13 Extrapolating by population, I came to the 14 conclusion that we could save as much as 450,000 15 tons of carbon dioxide per year. That number, 16 if measured against the state's goal for carbon 17 dioxide reduction, were in the range of a couple 18 percent of the state's overall goal for carbon 19 dioxide, and I feel very strongly that any 20 technology that can contribute a couple percent 21 toward meeting New Jersey goals is one that 22 deserves support. 23 I did want to point out that when I 24 talk about saving carbon dioxide, I am talking 25 about comparing geothermal technology to what I GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 259 1 would call conventional systems, which from my 2 research purpose is I have said that is gas-fired 3 boilers and electric chillers, that is not the 4 system that shows up everywhere because gas 5 supply is not available everywhere. Geothermal 6 technology, geothermal installations and capital 7 costs can be a little more expensive than 8 conventional technology in some parts of the 9 state and substantially more in other parts of 10 the state. Therefore, when decisions are being 11 made about heating and cooling public buildings 12 like schools, it is essential that we be thinking 13 in terms of life-cycle costs, not capital costs. 14 I am very concerned with respect to 15 the state school facilities program that if we 16 get too involved with the idea that everything 17 has to be done on time and under budget, and we 18 don't stop and look at life-cycle costs, we are 19 going to miss an opportunity to save money, to 20 save energy and to reduce air pollutants. 21 Finally, I want to say just a little 22 bit about solar photovoltaic and I bring you this 23 information because we just completed some 24 calculations that suggests to us that in current 25 market conditions and the rebates that are now GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 260 1 available, the investment per dollar saved for a 2 foot for photovoltaic, basically you have to 3 invest about six times as much money to get the 4 same savings as you would get from a geothermal 5 and heating cooling system. So I felt that the 6 Clean Air Council would be well advised to look 7 closely at decisions that are being made in the 8 educational, the school facilities construction 9 program in order to be sure that the decisions 10 made there give us the best possible outcome for 11 clean air. 12 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 13 much. That is very, very interesting. You 14 start to hear more of that geothermal coming more 15 on line and we heard about that earlier today, it 16 is really pretty fascinating and so eloquently 17 simple. 18 Does anyone have any questions? 19 DR. PAUL: You said that the cost 20 of installation varied quite a bit from slightly 21 more than conventional systems in some parts of 22 the states to considerably more than others. 23 What features around the state, considering this 24 is a closed system, make it more expensive in one 25 area than the other, is it the ability to make GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 261 1 bore holes. 2 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: The geology 3 which is the only thing you can't adjust. 4 DR. PAUL: Which types of geology 5 are the most attractive in which parts of the 6 state? 7 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: South Jersey 8 is the best area because with the sand and clay 9 which is easy to drill through, then you have a 10 wide range of configurations. In northern New 11 Jersey, you have to look at each site 12 individually because things can change, geology 13 can change within a mile or two. So you have to 14 be more cautious in your planning. And there are 15 certain areas in northern New Jersey -- 16 DR. PAUL: What are you looking for 17 in generals , are you looking for bore soil, 18 lower water table. 19 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: No, water 20 table is okay, high water table is fine, water is 21 good because then you get good 22 thermoconductivity. What is on -- rock is okay 23 too, provided that your driller is experienced 24 and has the correct equipment. Probably the 25 most challenging thing is cobalt and boulders, so GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 262 1 if you have, for example, an overburden, if you 2 have one that is 100 feet deep with cobalt and 3 boulders, that's okay, you have to know the depth 4 to bedrock. Bedrock is okay. It is the 5 combination of situations that is difficult. 6 What I am concerned with is that 7 people are eliminated geothermally from 8 consideration based on the fact that they simply 9 don't know what's down under the ground, and so 10 they think in order to investigate, I will have 11 to spend a lot of money, and they give you a 12 price and then say, but at that price, it is not 13 worth doing it. What it reflects is not the 14 geothermal is a bad choice, it reflects that they 15 don't know and they are being cautious and it is 16 understandable. 17 DR. MANGANELLI: We were told this 18 morning on the decision about wet sands was ideal 19 for this, more importantly was in the buildings 20 we were told that, for instance, one side might 21 be the hot side of the building facing the sun 22 that you can cool and heat at the same time which 23 is a very flexible system. 24 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: Yes. 25 DR. MANGANELLI: What temperatures GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 263 1 do you maintain, what temperature do you maintain 2 in your buildings in the summer and winter? 3 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: I think in the 4 summer about 74 and in winter 71. There's no 5 difference between what to do with this that you 6 can do with a conventional system quirks that 7 happened at Stockton that people complain about 8 has to do with a retrofit. 9 DR. MANGANELLI: I was thinking in 10 the laboratories where we are using a number of 11 hoods, pumping the air and increasing it, so on, 12 in your laboratories, you still maintain the 13 temperature. 14 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: We still 15 maintain the temperature ranges. One of the 16 buildings was designed for 100 percent fresh air 17 and in that we have more small heat pumps spread 18 around the building because it was new 19 construction and we can do it exactly how we 20 wanted to. A building like that is always going 21 to be an expensive building. Now, Stockton's 22 geothermal project is available to offer 23 information to anybody who wants it. I brought a 24 pile of literature so anyone who likes it should 25 get some from me. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 264 1 DR. MANGANELLI: I was talking to an 2 engineer from Kane University who put in a 3 geothermal system and the photovoltaics they used 4 it in the windows so therefore they can generate 5 the electricity. 6 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: Building 7 integrated photovoltaic offer wonderful 8 possibilities. We have a small photovoltaic 9 unit on our newest building. We did a 10 calculation to see how much electricity we can 11 generate if we covered all our roofs to the same 12 extent that we cover the new building, and we 13 found out that that would generate $30,000 of 14 electricity per year which frankly versus our 15 electricity need is not all that much. 16 But, as I said, the building intake 17 graded photovoltaics offer different 18 possibilities. We feel very strongly that 19 basically every kind of technology is going to 20 need to be used to make the changes that we want. 21 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 22 much. 23 Rhesa Ramdeen. 24 RHESA RAMDEEN: Thank you. Good 25 morning. My name is Rhesa Ramdeen, I come from GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 265 1 Stockton College of New Jersey. We all know 2 that in New Jersey the public density is the 3 highest in the country and one of the biggest 4 problems that we have is suburban sprawl. We see 5 housing development after housing development 6 going up everywhere and basically this won't be a 7 problem because high density housing isn't really 8 such a bad thing. But because of improper poor 9 planning, people end up having to drive 10 everywhere and basically we are not having too 11 many standards pass for high mileage vehicles. 12 Recently in Congress the CAFE 13 standards was not passed. This would have 14 limited SUV's to the higher mileage but this 15 wasn't passed. While sprawl is a very important 16 issue and that needs to be addressed as well so 17 that that can be stopped, but I am going to talk 18 about what can be done to stop the pollution that 19 is being caused by the sprawl so this inefficient 20 pattern can be stopped, there is a way to deal 21 with the problems of automotive overuse that 22 results from the development that has already 23 taken place. I would like to have more effective 24 public transportation so that people won't have 25 to use vehicles quite as much as they do right GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 266 1 now. Currently, people always choose their 2 vehicles over public transportation because if 3 you have a car, you are not going to take the bus 4 because basically people complain that it is 5 unreliable, it is dirty, it is slow. And for me, 6 my biggest probably is that it is unavailable. 7 I don't have a car, so I live in South Jersey 8 right now and there's basically no buses to get 9 -- I live in Pomona, New Jersey, and to get to my 10 school from Atlantic City which is a 15-minute 11 drive would take two-and-a-half hours to get the 12 right bus. There is only one bus that goes there 13 and it stops every five minutes so someone who 14 has a car would not choose to take a bus, 15 obviously you are going to drive 15 minutes. 16 Even if that causes a lot of vehicular traffic 17 and pollution and contributes to global warming, 18 who cares about that stuff if it is going to take 19 two-and-a-half hours to get to something that 20 would take me 15 minutes. 21 So I think making public 22 transportation more available would be helpful 23 with these problems. 24 In other areas, urban areas where 25 public transportation is readily available, the GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 267 1 other issue that I have heard more about is 2 comfort, safety, cleanliness of waiting areas. A 3 big complaint is that the bus stops don't have 4 adequate shelter so you end up waiting in the 5 sun or rain or snow with nothing really to 6 protect you from the elements. So, of course, if 7 you have a car also that is another reason why 8 you wouldn't take public transportation, 9 sometimes buses don't show up and that is another 10 problem. So basically I think we must make 11 public transportation more accommodating to the 12 public so that it will be more desirable to using 13 private vehicles. 14 My proposal is that the State of New 15 Jersey should increase funding for public 16 transportation improvements. This would lead to 17 more buses that could serve more routes and run 18 more often. This will also create jobs for bus 19 drivers. Also improvements of bus stop shelters 20 which could provide basic shelter to 21 customers, cleaner and safer bus and train depots 22 and a publicity campaign to make people aware of 23 these changes and of the general benefits of 24 public transportation. And that would make 25 people aware of these improvements and also what GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 268 1 are the benefits of taking public transportation 2 over using your own car. 3 In addition to changing the number 4 of buses and routes, I also propose that any new 5 buses that are purchased should be of clean fuel 6 technology. Currently we have the hybrid 7 gas/electric engines in some cars. This would be 8 very useful in buses because hybrid electric 9 engines recharge every time you stop and buses 10 make a lot of stops so that would be perfect for 11 that use. 12 Fuel cells are also available in 13 cars although not widely available, so I think 14 this would also be a great choice for new buses, 15 both of these options will reduce air pollution, 16 carbon dioxide emissions and they are much more 17 fuel-efficient than combustion engines. And I 18 can only say these things have to be done now. 19 People don't like public transportation, it has a 20 very bad reputation, so if it started now, I 21 think in the very near future we can implement 22 these changes and change public opinion about 23 taking public transportation. 24 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you very 25 much. That was thoughtful, that was well done. GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 269 1 MR. McCARTY: I have one comment; 2 having grown up right near your school in 3 Absecon, the only direct buses from that area to 4 Trenton are the casino runs. 5 MR. EGENTON: Before the Light Rail 6 line, there wasn't anything at all to and from 7 that point where I am, Camden County to Trenton. 8 (At which time there was a 9 discussion held off the record.) 10 DR. MANGANELLI: I would like to 11 commend Rhesa for a fine job. 12 MR. PAPENBERG: I would like to state 13 that I believe that the problem may not be solved 14 easily because N.J., the problem is looking at 15 the potential ridership in the area and through 16 the surveys in the rider potential is just not 17 there, they are not going to put the buses there. 18 A better idea was the one discussed earlier, that 19 type of potential hopefully in the short run 20 would be something itself that the college could 21 institute, the pool. If you do not have the 22 population concentration, it is not going to make 23 financial sense for the N.J. Transit to buy the 24 buses and have the buses run there. 25 RHESA RAMDEEN: I think perhaps if GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 270 1 they have smaller -- in Atlantic City, they have 2 the jitney buses that would work for small 3 populations. 4 MR. PAPENBERG: The computer ride, 5 Dial a Ride, is perfect because that way it can 6 be developed to meet your needs, whatever 7 population it is. 8 DR. MANGANELLI: What percentage of 9 your students are residential and commuter versus 10 commuter. 11 RHESA RAMDEEN: I have no idea. 12 MS. ALICE GITCHELL: It might be 13 50-50, we have a fine commuter percentage. 14 DR. MANGANELLI: Then what he says 15 maybe we can work out something. 16 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Next speaker is 17 Michael Napoli. 18 MR. NAPOLI: My name is Mike 19 Napoli, I am from Stockton also. It says Water 20 Watch on the thing because I am a member of the 21 Water Watch. More importantly, I am talking for 22 the environmental students at Stockton College 23 right now, I am an environmental student. 24 In our classes, we have been talking 25 about really grim things and the pollution and GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 271 1 talking about in London, in London ,what was it, 2 50 years ago, 4,000 people died, doubling of 3 child mortality due to air pollution. In New 4 York in 1966, 1,000 people suffered respiratory 5 illness, 168 died from a thick layer of air 6 pollution that enveloped the city for two days, 7 and we have been doing these projects with 8 writing issue briefs and my last one was on 9 alternative fuels which was a big part of the 10 conversation here today with vehicles and stuff, 11 and basically what I thought was a good idea 12 because the alternative fuel vehicles -- now, 13 somebody brought up now an appeal to young people 14 and how this kind of technology is going to get 15 out there, so with that being an issue on 16 people's minds, to do a public works or New 17 Jersey Transit incorporating some of these 18 alternative fuels into their buses would be a 19 good idea. 20 In Chicago, five years ago, their 21 public transportation implemented, they bought 22 three hydrogen-fueled buses. Now, it cost $1.4 23 million to build each bus and $1 million to 24 install a fueling station, but the reason to use 25 hydrogen is better because it is zero emissions, GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 272 1 it is just water vapor. So right now that 2 technology is not accessible to the public 3 because it -- there are no hydrogen fueling 4 stations, so the reason why public work projects 5 like New Jersey Transit that use it is because 6 their buses always run on a schedule and come to 7 a localized main station which is a fueling 8 station, a hydrogen fueling station could be 9 built to distribute fuel to a large number of 10 buses. So Chicago did it on a small basis but 11 if you do this on a larger scale, it will not 12 only help to fuel cell technology to propel it, 13 but it also makes the public more aware of the 14 situations. I mean, you can even put a little 15 hydrogen bus sticker on them. 16 I was looking on the web at 17 Georgetown University, they have actually made 18 hydrogen fuel cell buses and they have -- the 19 technology is very, very patented and looking 20 pretty good, so right now, Arkansas, California, 21 Arizona, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New 22 Mexico, Ohio, Oregon, and Rhode Island, they all 23 have instituted alternative fuel benefits, tax 24 exempt statuses or something like that. So New 25 Jersey also has some of these, but to do, New GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 273 1 Jersey Transit and use hydrogen buses would be 2 very right for the State because the high 3 population density. I read right off of the 4 pamphlet that was to come here, that New Jersey 5 is expecting a million more people this year. 6 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: That's 10 years 7 out, 10 years from now, there will be 9.4 million 8 people as opposed to 8.4. 9 MR. NAPOLI: That would 10 necessitate that public transportation would be a 11 viable and practical thing to compensate for 12 these people coming in and hydrogen fuel cells 13 being pollution free could definitely propel the 14 industry and also make New Jersey a cleaner 15 place. 16 I think that's it. Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: Thank you. I 18 appreciate the time you put into this and also 19 the fact that you put footnotes in and that goes 20 back to history. 21 DR. MANGANELLI: Congratulate you on 22 your contributions. 23 CHAIRMAN MAXWELL: I think we are 24 going to end this Clean Air Council Public 25 Hearing on a positive note. I would like to GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 274 1 thank everyone. 2 3 (Whereupon the hearing was concluded at 4 5:10 p.m.) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES 275 1 2 3 C E R T I F I C A T E 4 I, LINDA L. PSYLLOS, a Certified 5 Shorthand Reporter, License No. 1184, and Notary 6 Public of the State of New Jersey, do hereby 7 certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate 8 transcript of the testimony as taken 9 stenographically by and before me at the time, 10 place and on the date hereinbefore set forth. 11 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am 12 neither a relative nor employee nor attorney nor 13 counsel of any of the parties to this action, and 14 that I am neither a relative nor employee of such 15 attorney or counsel, and that I am not 16 financially interested in the action. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES