1 1 STATE OF NEW JERSEY 2 DIVISION OF ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY AND HEALTH 3 PO BOX 424, TRENTON, NEW JERSEY 08625 4 PUBLIC HEARING 5 THE NEW JERSEY RADIOLOGICAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE PLAN 6 FOR NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS 7 8 9 10 Location: Ocean County Administration 11 Building, Room 119 12 101 Hooper Avenue 13 Toms River, New Jersey 08754 14 Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 15 Commencing at 6:00 to 7:20 p.m. 16 17 18 19 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES, INC. 20 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS & VIDEOGRAPHERS 21 GOLDEN CREST CORPORATE CENTER 22 2277 STATE HIGHWAY #33, SUITE 410 23 TRENTON, NEW JERSEY 08690 24 TEL: (609) 989-9199 TOLL FREE: (800) 368-7652 25 www.renziassociates.com 2 Paul Orlando 1 B E F O R E : 2 PAUL ORLANDO, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR 3 ALLEN SMITH, OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT 4 PATRICK MULLIGAN, MANAGER OF DEP, BUREAU 5 OF NUCLEAR ENGINEERING 6 JAMES PASQUALO, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH 7 8 A L S O P R E S E N T : 9 BUREAU OF NUCLEAR ENGINEERING: 10 ANN PFAFF 11 ATUL VAID 12 SAHAR AZMAT 13 ATUL VAID 14 VEENA GUBBI 15 RICH PENNEY 16 CHRIS BARRY 17 KAREN TUCCILLO 18 PAUL SCHWARTZ 19 RON ZACK 20 OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: 21 GIAN CAMPESI 22 JERRY RENNER 23 24 25 3 Paul Orlando 1 I N D E X 2 PRESENTATIONS: PAGE: 3 PAUL ORLANDO 4 4 ALLEN SMITH 8 5 PATRICK MULLIGAN 11 6 JAMES PASQUALO 14 7 8 SPEAKERS: 9 10 JEFFREY BROWN 16, 60 11 JANET TAURO 18, 55 12 BARBARA HALICHSTEIN 26 13 PAULA GOTSCH 32 14 GALE WAYMAN 36, 57 15 WILLIAM DeCAMP, JR. 44 16 PEGGI STURMFELS 60, 64 17 JOSEPH SCARPELLI 69 18 19 E X H I B I T S 20 ID DESCRIPTION PAGE 21 (NO EXHIBITS WERE MARKED.) 22 23 24 25 4 Paul Orlando 1 (Gavel bangs.) 2 MR. ORLANDO: All right. We'll get this 3 meeting started. 4 Good evening. My name is Paul Orlando. 5 I am the Assistant Director of Radiation 6 Protection and Release Prevention Program 7 within the New Jersey Department of 8 Environmental Protection. I will be the 9 hearing officer this evening. 10 The purpose of this hearing is to 11 receive comments regarding the adequacy and 12 effectiveness of the New Jersey radiological 13 Emergency Response Plan for nuclear power 14 plants. In order that this hearing may be 15 properly documented, these proceedings are 16 being recorded by a certified shorthand 17 reporter. 18 Everyone attending this meeting is asked 19 to sign the attendance sheet before leaving. 20 The attendance sheets for these hearings are 21 used to update the Bureau of Nuclear 22 Engineering public hearing mailing list. 23 Public notice of this hearing was 24 published on the New Jersey "Register" on July 25 16th and July 7, 2014. In addition, public 5 Allen Smith 1 notice was published in the "Asbury Park Press" 2 from July 14th through July 21st, 2014, and in 3 both the "Times Beacon" and "Beach Haven Times" 4 on July 17, 2014. Copies of the public notice 5 for the three hearings where mailed in June to 6 all persons who attended last year's hearings. 7 This hearing will proceed as follows: I 8 will provide background on why we are 9 conducting this hearing. Then I will introduce 10 the panel members and ask them to briefly 11 describe the role of their organization in the 12 nuclear emergency preparedness and response. 13 Finally, I will open the hearing for comments 14 from the public. 15 The New Jersey Radiation Accident 16 Response Act requires that the Department of 17 Environmental Protection, in cooperation with 18 the New Jersey Division of State Police, 19 conduct public hearings to take comment on and 20 to address questions relevant to the adequacy 21 and effectiveness of the New Jersey 22 Radiological Emergency Response Plan for 23 Nuclear Power Plants. 24 These public hearings are held annually 25 in each of three counties affected by the plan; 6 Allen Smith 1 Ocean County for the Oyster Creek Nuclear 2 Generating Station, and Salem and Cumberland 3 Counties for the Salem Unit I and Salem Unit 4 II, and Hope Creek Nuclear Generating Stations. 5 We are here tonight to listen to your 6 comments on New Jersey's Nuclear Response Plan. 7 Comments on more general nuclear power issues 8 or issues that relate to licensing and 9 regulatory matters at nuclear power plants are 10 not within the purview of this meeting and, 11 hence, are not appropriate and will not be 12 addressed. 13 The purpose of the plan is to coordinate 14 and implement an immediate and comprehensive 15 response at the state, county, and municipal 16 levels to a radiological emergency associated 17 with any nuclear power plant affecting the 18 state of New Jersey. 19 Copies of the plan are available for 20 public inspection. At the Salem County 21 Emergency Management Office in Mannington 22 Township, the Cumberland County Office of 23 Emergency Management in Bridgeton, the Ocean 24 County Office of Emergency Management in 25 Berkeley Township, the New Jersey Office of 7 Allen Smith 1 Emergency Management in West Trenton, and in 2 public libraries in Salem, Cumberland, and 3 Ocean Counties. 4 Now I would like to introduce the 5 members of the panel. To my right, Mr. Allen 6 Smith is representing the New Jersey Division 7 of State Police. Mr. Smith is a site 8 specialist in the Office of Emergency 9 Management, Radiological Emergency Response 10 Planning and Tactical Unit. 11 To my left Mr. Patrick Mulligan is 12 representing the New Jersey Department of 13 Environmental Protection. Mr. Mulligan is 14 Manager of the Bureau of Nuclear Engineering 15 within the New Jersey Department of 16 Environmental Protection. 17 To my far left representing the New 18 Jersey Department of Health is Mr. James 19 Pasqualo. Mr. Pasqualo is an Emergency 20 Response Coordinator in the Division of Public 21 Health Infrastructure, Laboratories and 22 Emergency Preparedness. If questions arise 23 that involve the responsibilities of the 24 Department of Public Health, I will call on him 25 for a response. 8 Patrick Mulligan 1 Now I will ask Mr. Smith to briefly 2 describe the role of the State Police in the 3 plan. 4 MR. SMITH: Thank you, Paul. 5 Good evening. As Paul said, my name is 6 Allen Smith, and I work for the Division of 7 State Police, Office of Emergency Management. 8 And this evening we have also two members in 9 the audience are with us that are our Assistant 10 Unit Head, Mr. Jerry Renner, and our 11 Radiological Officer for the Unit is Mr. Gian 12 Campesi with us today. 13 To give you a little background on the 14 plan. In accordance with NJSA 26:2D-37, the 15 Radiation Response Act Statute for nuclear power 16 plants, was developed and has been maintained 17 as a joint effort by the Division of State 18 Police and the New Jersey Department of 19 Environmental Protection. 20 The New Jersey Radiological Response 21 Plan is based on NUREG-0654 FEMA REP-1 and 22 provides on-site and off-site planning guidance 23 to protect the safety and health of the public 24 in the event of an incident at a nuclear power 25 plant. The New Jersey Radiological Response 9 Patrick Mulligan 1 Plan includes 16 planning standards and 2 associated criteria for assessing whether the 3 licensee of the affected off-site response 4 organization have plans and procedures in place 5 that provide a reasonable assurance that 6 adequate protective measures can and will be 7 taken. 8 Radiological Response Plan, or commonly 9 known as the REP Plan, is presented in three 10 sections, the basic plan, 16 planning sections, 11 and attachments. 12 The basic plan provides general 13 background as a basis for the New Jersey 14 planning effort. Key elements of the plan 15 include legislative authorities for New Jersey 16 State Police and the Department of 17 Environmental Protection to develop plans for 18 the nuclear power plants. To coordinate state, 19 county, and municipal emergency operations, and 20 to initiate memorandum of understanding, a 21 concept of operations for the Radiological 22 Emergency Response Plan -- excuse me -- a 23 description of the federal planning basis, a 24 description of the two nuclear power plant 25 sites in New Jersey. A listing of planning 10 Patrick Mulligan 1 assumptions, and listing of state, federal, and 2 private agencies with their agencies assigned 3 emergency functions and missions. 4 Sixteen planning sections are directly 5 corresponding with 16 FEMA planning standards. 6 And the items listed under each are 7 representative of information required for the 8 section but do not list all the criteria. 9 And I'll read the sections real quickly. 10 Assign -- Section A is Assignment 11 Responsibility. Section B is On-site Emergency 12 Organizations. Section C is Emergency Response 13 and Resources. D is Emergency Classification 14 System. E is the Notification Methods and 15 Procedures. F is Emergency Communications. G 16 is the Public Education Information. H is 17 Emergency Facilities and Equipment. I is 18 Accident Assessment. J is Protective Response. 19 K is Radiological Exposure Control. L is 20 Medical and Public Health Support. M is 21 Recovery, Reentry Planning, and Post-accident 22 Operations. N is Exercise and Drills. O is 23 Radiological Response Training Effort. And P 24 is Responsibility for the Planning Effort. 25 And there are also 20 attachments that 11 James Pasqualo 1 augment those sections. 2 Thank you very much. 3 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 4 Now, I'll ask Mr. Mulligan to briefly 5 describe the role of the Department of 6 Environmental Protection in the plan. 7 MR. MULLIGAN: Thank you, Paul. 8 Good evening. My name is Patrick 9 Mulligan. I am the Manager of the Bureau of 10 Nuclear Engineering. I will briefly discuss 11 the role of the Department of Environmental 12 Protection in the New Jersey Radiological 13 Emergency Response Plan. 14 The New Jersey Radiological Emergency 15 Response Plan identifies all State agencies and 16 outlines their specific roles in the event of a 17 nuclear emergency. The plan includes Standard 18 Operating Procedures which contain detailed 19 instructions and guidelines used by each agency 20 when performing their specific duties. 21 The Standard Operating Procedures are 22 reviewed and tested annually through drills and 23 exercises. The procedures are then revised as 24 necessary in order to enhance emergency 25 response. 12 1 Under the New Jersey Radiation Accident 2 Response Act, the Department of Environmental 3 Protection has the lead role in accident 4 assessment and control of food, water, and milk 5 following an incident. 6 Accident assessment involves two 7 separate analysis, an engineering analysis of 8 the event at the plant as it unfolds, and an 9 analysis of the amount of radiation to which 10 the public may be exposed in the event of a 11 release. 12 Depending upon the severity of the 13 event, the Department provides Protective 14 Action Recommendations to the Governor who will 15 make a final decision to actions to be 16 implemented to protect public health and 17 safety. Protected Action Recommendations for 18 the public may include the administration of 19 potassium iodide, evacuation, sheltering, and 20 access control within the affected or 21 potentially affected area. 22 The Act also specifies that the 23 Department develop and implement a 24 comprehensive monitoring strategy that includes 25 the daily monitoring of levels of radioactivity 13 Jeffrey Brown 1 in the environment. The Department provides 2 public health, safety, and technical guidance 3 with respect to the preparation and 4 implementation of the plan. 5 The Department's final responsibility 6 under the Act is to conduct, in cooperation 7 with state police, public hearings annually in 8 each designated counties to determine the 9 adequacy and effectiveness of the plan. 10 And members of my staff that are here 11 with me tonight include Mr. Rich Penney, who 12 supervises the engineering section. Mr. Ron 13 Zack, who's a nuclear engineer in the 14 engineering section. Ms. Karen Tuccillo, who 15 is the Supervisor of Environmental Section, and 16 her staff, Paul Schwartz, who is an nuclear 17 engineer in the Environmental Section. 18 Ann Pfaff, who supervises our Emergency 19 Preparedness Section. And her staff is here 20 tonight. In the back we have Mr. Chris Barry. 21 We have Atul Vaid, Sahar Azmat, and Veena 22 Gubbi. 23 Thank you. 24 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you, Pat. Now, I'll 25 ask Mr. Pasqualo to briefly describe the role 14 Jeffrey Brown 1 of the Department of Health. 2 MR. PASQUALO: Good evening, everyone. 3 I'm Jim Pasqualo, Department of Health, New 4 Jersey Operations Emergency Response. 5 Our function in RERP is to address the 6 public health invocations of the plan through 7 participation in the exercises planning for 8 response and recovery operations. 9 These are -- include but are not limited 10 to a lot of aspects of the public welfare in 11 terms of the effects of radiation. We're 12 involved with responder health and safety 13 issues, recording dosages for the public, for 14 emergency responders. We're working tightly 15 with Ocean County Health Department in terms of 16 the securing and distribution of potassium 17 iodide during an emergency. And basically add 18 a public health perspective to the planning and 19 response activities that are associated with 20 RERP. 21 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you, Jim. 22 We will now proceed with the public 23 comments. Those individuals who wish to speak 24 should complete a speaker registration card and 25 hand it to one of the staff. I will call the 15 Janet Tauro 1 speakers' names in the order I receive the 2 registration cards. Please be certain to 3 clearly print your name and address on the 4 registration card so that we may contact you if 5 we need to respond to your comments and 6 questions more fully in writing. 7 When I call your name, come forward to 8 the microphone. Face the panel and make 9 yourself comfortable. Before you begin your 10 comments, please state and spell your name for 11 the reporter. 12 Speakers will be limited to five minutes 13 each. If time still remains after everyone has 14 had a chance to speak, I will invite additional 15 comments from those individuals who have 16 already spoken. 17 In fairness to the speaker, and in order 18 that we all can make the best use of this time, 19 I ask the cooperation of the audience in 20 refraining from calling out. Comments from the 21 audience will only delay the proceedings and 22 will disrupt our ability to hear and accurately 23 record the speaker's comments. 24 Again, I would like to emphasize that we 25 are here tonight to listen to your comments on 16 Janet Tauro 1 New Jersey's Nuclear Emergency Response Plan. 2 Comments on more general nuclear power issues 3 or issues that relate to licensing and 4 regulatory matters at nuclear power plants are 5 not within the pursue of this meeting and, 6 hence, are not appropriate and will not be 7 addressed. 8 Thank you. 9 We will now call our first commenter. 10 And the first commenter I have is Jeff Brown. 11 MR. BROWN: Gentlemen. Jeffrey, 12 J-e-f-f-r-e-y, B-r-o-w-n. 13 This is my 11th such hearing, I believe. 14 And one of the things I've learned in the past 15 11 years is that whatever gets done depend on 16 the standards and on how dangerous you all 17 think things are and are going to become. And 18 so I would like to address the issue of the 19 radiation standards that you currently operate 20 under and request that the State take some 21 proactive action to increase those standards. 22 One of the reasons is -- the EPA basically has 23 said they're going to reconsider or so-call 24 update their radiation standards for 40 CFR 25 190, the environmental radiation protection 17 Janet Tauro 1 standards for nuclear power operations. The 2 deadline was extended to August 1st for 3 comments. And I'm asking both the Department 4 of Environmental Protection and the Department 5 of Health if you have submitted comments or if 6 you will be submitting comments regarding the 7 nature of these standards. 8 We are very concerned that the intent of 9 the EPA is to loosen the standards, and we are 10 here to say we would like to see those 11 standards tightened, not loosened. One of the 12 reasons is that the EPA generally sets 13 acceptable risk standards for nonradioactive 14 pollutants at anywhere from 1 in 10,000 to 15 one-in-a-million range. 16 But according to the EPA's own risk 17 estimate, a standard for radiation exposure 25 18 milligrams a year, equals a 1-in-500 acceptable 19 risk, which is -- that's even higher for women 20 and children. So we're asking that the State 21 go on record saying that we want stronger 22 standards, not weaker standards for nuclear 23 power plants, including Oyster Creek. 24 And he also want EPA -- I'll be asking 25 the DEP, also -- to provide realtime monitoring 18 Janet Tauro 1 and reporting on radiation releases so those of 2 us in the community can be part of the 3 oversight process. 4 Thank you very much. 5 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 6 Okay. Our next commenter is Janet 7 Tauro. 8 MS. TAURO: Janet Tauro, T-a-u-r-o. And 9 GRAMMES, Grandmothers, Mothers and More. I'm a 10 founding member. And I also serve as the Board 11 Chair of Clean Water Action. We have 150,000 12 members statewide and a 75-member organization. 13 Okay. So I do have a question about 14 evacuation that I will be giving to the 15 gentleman from the Department of Health. But 16 before I do that, I want to talk to you a 17 little bit about the recent shutdown at Oyster 18 Creek on July 7th, the unplanned shutdown on 19 July 7th. 20 GRAMMES and Clean Water Action are part 21 of a national citizens radiation monitoring 22 group, the Radiation Network. And this is 23 administered by the Mineralab of Prescott, 24 Arizona. Now that group automatically records 25 findings into spreadsheets and graphs. Now, 19 Janet Tauro 1 I'll tell you basically what it is. 2 We have about five sites around the 3 Oyster Creek plant where radiation monitors are 4 set up, and that data goes directly to the 5 national site. On July 7th when it was 6 announced that there was this abrupt shutdown 7 at Oyster Creek, to tell you the truth, we 8 became a little bit skeptical about the reason 9 that Exelon gave for the shutdown. So we 10 decided to go back to our data and look at it. 11 And specifically we looked at data that was 12 collected at a site that was one half mile from 13 the plant. Okay? 14 So when we looked at that data, the 15 analysis showed that the spikes in radiation on 16 the day before -- that's July 6th -- and on the 17 day of were almost double what we usually see 18 in a baseline. 19 So to backtrack a little bit, we have a 20 baseline of radiation that we see in the area 21 that is a combination of naturally occurring 22 radiation and what comes from Oyster Creek. 23 And then we saw something that we'll call 24 "spikes." And according to this national 25 network, a spike is anything that is ten 20 Janet Tauro 1 percent above baseline that occurs for a 2 duration of ten minutes or more. 3 What we saw -- we didn't use the ten- 4 percent figure when we looked at our analysis. 5 We looked for an even more conservative number. 6 We looked for spikes that were 22 to 25 percent 7 higher than what is normally seen. And what we 8 did see at this site that was one half mile 9 from the plant is that there were on July 6th, 10 ten spikes. 11 I know you keep looking at the 12 clock but-- but this is very important 13 information. 14 There were ten spikes of ten minutes or 15 more. On July 7th, there were 15 spikes of ten 16 minutes or more. And then the plant was shut 17 down. 18 We would like the DEP to supply us with 19 your data in real life time. What does your 20 data show from your radiation monitors for 21 during that period? We would like Exelon to 22 give us their radiation readings for during 23 that period because, quite frankly, we would 24 like to know if there was something going on 25 inside that plant that caused these radiation 21 Janet Tauro 1 spikes and caused them to abruptly shut down 2 the plant. 3 The reason they gave is, quite frankly, 4 ridiculous. The reason they gave was that they 5 were working on some valves in a work room, and 6 they noticed some problems with them. So, oh, 7 my goodness. Let's shut down the plant and see 8 if the valves that are in operation now if 9 there's a problem. 10 That problem was discovered in the 11 latter part of June. They -- if they really 12 thought there was a problem with the valves, 13 why did they wait until July 7th? We would 14 like to know why we saw these spikes in 15 radiation on July 7th and why there was an 16 abrupt shut down? Okay. 17 Now, the gentleman from the Department 18 of Health. I would like to ask you how well 19 equipped area hospitals and emergency vehicles 20 are in handling those who may have been exposed 21 with radiation during a meltdown at Oyster 22 Creek, if there was one. 23 And I'll tell you why I ask the 24 question. Because when we were attending via 25 conference call a Salem hearing with the NRC, 22 Janet Tauro 1 one of the -- one of the points that came up 2 was that the emergency vehicles that would 3 respond to an accident at Salem really weren't 4 equipped to handle anyone who might have been 5 exposed to radiation. So how is that being 6 handled in the plan? 7 And, also, we have a very new emergency 8 room in Brick that can handle one person who is 9 exposed with radiation. Well, what if you have 10 a dozen? I would like to know how well 11 equipped area hospitals are. And vehicles. 12 How well equipped are the vehicles to shield 13 the driver and to shield the emergency 14 responders who are going there and getting 15 people who may have been exposed? 16 MR. PASQUALO: There is a difference 17 between a patient being exposed and being 18 contaminated. Contaminated would imply that 19 there's a radioactive substance still on their 20 person or within their body. 21 MS. TAURO: Right. 22 MR. PASQUALO: So one of the things that 23 has been ongoing has been to quip EMS, 24 emergency medical services, with 25 instrumentation that would tell the drivers and 23 Barbara Kalichstein 1 the attendants that they are in a radioactive 2 field. In other words, you need a dosimeter or 3 some type of a survey instrument since you 4 can't smell radiation, see it -- 5 MS. TAURO: Sure. 6 MR. PASQUALO: -- you have to rely on a 7 meter to tell you, you know, that it exists. 8 We've also -- we've gone to the point 9 where we bought and distributed these on a 10 trial basis to the counties' hazmat teams and 11 people who would be, you know, involved in the 12 initial stages of an emergency here in Ocean 13 County and in Salem and Gloucester. 14 Now, as far as the hospitals go, the 15 treatment of a contaminated person -- again 16 this is not somebody who was exposed to 17 radiation itself. 18 MS. TAURO: I understand. 19 MR. PASQUALO: Or radiation sickness. 20 MS. TAURO: So we're using the term 21 "contaminated." 22 MR. PASQUALO: Right. 23 MS. TAURO: We're going to still -- 24 MR. PASQUALO: If a patient was 25 contaminated, you are faced with a problem 24 Barbara Kalichstein 1 inasmuch as you don't want to compromise your 2 emergency room or the hospital staff. 3 MS. TAURO: No. 4 MR. PASQUALO: There are training 5 programs active right now promoted by the 6 hospital association, the different 7 corporations, you know, the hospital systems 8 that train their ER people in methodologies to 9 decontaminate the person or group of people 10 outside the hospital proper before they're 11 brought into the facility to be treated for 12 radiation sickness. 13 Most of the initiatives have been at the 14 hazmat squad, state police level where, you 15 know, we support and encourage the training of 16 these teams to the special techniques that are 17 required to physically decontaminate a person 18 to the point where it's safe to deal with them 19 through the -- you know, existing emergency 20 rooms. 21 So the answer to your question is, yes, 22 you know, it's being done at two levels. 23 Again, the EMS people are being trained and 24 equipped to be able to detect radiation and 25 function in that type of environment. And 25 Barbara Kalichstein 1 there are specific initiatives that are ongoing 2 with the hospitals so that they can identify, 3 survey people, and do the specific tasks that 4 are necessary to safely treat these people. 5 MS. TAURO: So, basically, they can't go 6 into the hosp -- 7 MR. PASQUALO: Well, that depends. 8 MS. TAURO: So basically, you're going 9 to decontaminate a whole bunch of people 10 outside of the plant or outside of the hospital 11 before you can try to get them into the -- into 12 the ambulance to get them where they need to 13 get medical attention? 14 MR. PASQUALO: Correct. 15 MS. TAURO: Okay. You answered it. 16 MR. PASQUALO: If somebody has on their 17 person -- 18 MS. TAURO: Yeah. 19 MR. PASQUALO: -- a radioactive 20 substance, it's to everybody's best interest 21 and to the doctors and nurses that that be 22 dealt with to the extent as possible before 23 they're going in for medical treatment. It's 24 highly specialized. And, again, because you 25 can't see, smell, or touch radiation, the only 26 Barbara Kalichstein 1 way it can be done is through instrumentation. 2 So that makes the decontamination procedure, 3 you know, fairly complicated. And it's not as 4 easy as, say, other threats would be. 5 MS. TAURO: Uh-huh. Thanks. 6 (Conferring.) 7 MS. TAURO: Oh, so -- so -- so -- so -- 8 so, yes? We can have that information? The 9 DEP's real life monitoring results? 10 MR. ORLANDO: We can take your request, 11 and we will get that information to you. 12 MS. TAURO: Okay. I'll call the office 13 to make sure. 14 MR. ORLANDO: All right. 15 MS. TAURO: Thank you. 16 MR. ORLANDO: Our next commenter will be 17 Barbara Kalichstein. I hope I pronounced that 18 properly. Forgive me if I haven't. 19 MS. KALICHSTEIN: Hi. I'm Barbara 20 Kalichstein, K-a-l-i-c-h-s-t-e-i-n. I'm just 21 here as a concerned citizen. 22 MR. ORLANDO: Uh-hum. 23 MS. KALICHSTEIN: And I know for the 24 past two years, Jeff Brown of GRAMMES has been 25 asking you to inform the citizens of Ocean 27 Barbara Kalichstein 1 County and the visitors of Ocean County of the 2 fact that there is a plant, that the plant is 3 dangerous, have signs up letting people know 4 what to do in case of an emergency. And why 5 hasn't anything been done? 6 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 7 Al, maybe you just want to just talk 8 about how we provide public information notices 9 regarding response plans. 10 MR. SMITH: That was your question? So 11 your question is basically how you get 12 information about the plant? 13 MS. KALICHSTEIN: No. How anybody 14 driving around Ocean County is informed -- 15 MR. SMITH: Right. 16 MS. KALICHSTEIN: -- that there is an 17 plant. 18 MR. SMITH: Right. 19 MS. KALICHSTEIN: We have so many 20 visitors here. So many people have no idea. 21 MR. SMITH: Right. 22 MS. KALICHSTEIN: And if there is a 23 problem, if does anybody know who's visiting 24 what they are supposed to do. 25 MR. SMITH: Right. Well, there is 28 Barbara Kalichstein 1 public information brochures that are mailed to 2 each house every year. And I believe they are 3 also put out at various locations, hotels, 4 motels in the area. But there is no signs, per 5 se, on the highways that says there's a nuclear 6 power plant here. And there really -- you 7 know, to be quite frank with you, there is 8 none -- nowhere else in the country do they do 9 that, either. I mean, there's not really a 10 good answer. I mean, I don't know what you 11 would be looking for, to be honest with you, in 12 type of public information that would be out 13 there along the roadways and that type of 14 stuff. 15 I mean, we do send out a public 16 information brochure every year. We have these 17 public hearings. Not we. Exelon sends it out. 18 It's very comprehensive, talks about the 19 emergency classification levels, talks about 20 the emergency response planning areas. What we 21 should do in an emergency? 22 Do you live inside the ten-mile EPZ, 23 ma'am? 24 MS. KALICHSTEIN: No. But what 25 difference does it make? If I'm 50 miles 29 Paula Gotsch 1 away -- 2 MR. SMITH: No. I'm not asking if you 3 received it. 4 MS. KALICHSTEIN: No, I haven't. 5 MR. SMITH: Okay. 6 MS. KALICHSTEIN: And -- 7 MR. SMITH: And that's the reason. You 8 don't live within the ten-mile EPZ. You know. 9 MS. KALICHSTEIN: Does that make any 10 sense? Isn't it going to stop at the ten 11 miles? 12 MR. SMITH: Well, that's just the way 13 the plan's written. And you know, we -- that's 14 the way we send out everything every year as 15 far as per the regulations, per, you know, 16 standard regulations is how we do it. 17 So I'm sorry you feel that way about -- 18 MS. KALICHSTEIN: Yes, I do. 19 MR. SMITH: -- living outside the 20 plan -- outside the EPZ, and you don't have the 21 information. But you know, it's available 22 on-line if you go to the NJ OEM website. Okay? 23 And you click on -- there's a little logo down 24 at the bottom. Have you seen it before? 25 MS. KALICHSTEIN: No. 30 Paula Gotsch 1 MR. SMITH: Okay. It's a little logo, 2 and it has like a nuclear power plant sign on 3 it? 4 MS. KALICHSTEIN: Uh-hum. 5 MR. SMITH: And you click on that and 6 open it up, it will show you all the plans for 7 Salem Hope Creek or Oyster Creek and tell you 8 about the standards with use to evaluate, 9 reception centers, congregant care centers. 10 All that information will be there. So it is 11 available to you. 12 MS. KALICHSTEIN: It's certainly not 13 easily accessed for the normal person riding 14 around. And I just feel that as a citizen of 15 Ocean County, our safety does not seem to be 16 priority. 17 MR. ORLANDO: Maybe you could talk about 18 some of the technologies that's used in the 19 event. How anyone who would be out and about 20 might, you know, find -- 21 MR. SMITH: Well, number one, if there 22 was an event at the power plant that called for 23 any type of actions that would be -- would have 24 a potential for evacuation or we escalate to a 25 serious situation, we would sound the sirens. 31 Paula Gotsch 1 Now, those sirens are specifically used for 2 Oyster Creek. Okay? They're not for 3 hurricanes. They are not for any other issues. 4 So people that hear those sirens, should be -- 5 keep their ears attuned, and it's meant to 6 alert you to tune into your emergency alert 7 radio station. 8 MS. KALICHSTEIN: And if I live in 9 Jackson, am I going to hear that? 10 MR. SMITH: No. You won't, ma'am. You 11 got to live within the ten-mile EMZ -- well, 12 the immediately risk is within the ten-mile EMZ 13 zone. Especially to the two-mile zone. And 14 then less as you get to five and ten. So the 15 risks -- the immediate consequences and risks 16 to you out in Jackson, a ten-mile area, are not 17 immediate enough to cause evacuation. Okay? 18 And that's where we go into later on, if this 19 was a protracted event, we would go into what 20 they call a 50-mile ingestion pathway and start 21 evaluating products, milk products, dairy -- 22 food products, sampling water, sampling 23 vegetation. And that's where B & E comes in. 24 So it's not immediate response for you. You're 25 not in an immediate danger there. That's the 32 Paula Gotsch 1 reason why we don't -- we don't -- well, and 2 it's per the regulations, also. 3 MS. KALICHSTEIN: I understand. But you 4 can't convince me that I'm not -- 5 MR. SMITH: And I appreciate your -- and 6 ma'am, I do appreciate your comments, and I 7 respect them. 8 MR. ORLANDO: Our next commenter Paula 9 Gotsch? 10 MS. GOTSCH: That's Paula Gotsch, 11 G-o-t-s-c-h. And what do you need to know? 12 Where I'm from, or that's it? Okay. 13 At one of the last emergency -- one of 14 these meetings last year or the year before, we 15 asked that the Homeland Security person, whose 16 ever in charge -- or acting. I don't even know 17 if we have anybody in charge right now. I 18 think we're between. 19 Is that right, Patrick? But there must 20 be some representative of that agency. 21 Our rationale was that if anything 22 serious goes wrong at this plant that 23 Homeland's -- this is going to be the biggest 24 event in New Jersey. So why Homeland Security 25 has to be here, they have to learn, because I 33 Gale Wayman 1 don't think they -- they may not know about 2 this plant. And at the time we were told that 3 that was a very legitimate request. And they 4 would see to that. So even though there is not 5 a person, there should be a representative that 6 can come here. Somebody must be acting as 7 Homeland Security. 8 The other thing I'd like to say is that 9 with the plant now being under white -- it's 10 now under -- whatcha call it? The white 11 warning. In other words, there has been 12 several shutdowns within a certain amount of 13 time, which means the NRC has to have extra 14 oversight there. And this does reverberate 15 with those of us who say this is very old 16 plant. They don't like these hot shutdowns. 17 They rock that old sucker really bad. And so 18 we are very concerned that -- that we -- that 19 our emergency plans are well set up. 20 And in terms of saying that it's on a 21 computer somewhere, I live in a beach town, and 22 all these little visitors are there. All these 23 little kids running around. They don't -- they 24 wouldn't know what to do. It's -- it would be 25 a disaster. We had asked that beach 34 Gale Wayman 1 approaches, that restaurants, that all these 2 places have literature saying that this is an 3 emergency zone and that this is what you would 4 need to do. Here's some information. It's 5 like we're not telling people. It's the 6 biggest secret going in Ocean County. 7 All right. One other thing I'd like to 8 say. The last time we had a white finding -- 9 it might not have been the last time, but I 10 remember a white finding about seven years ago. 11 You can see how long we've been at this. And 12 that was due to soggy, rotted cables underneath 13 the plant. Now, these are safety -- emergency 14 safety cables. These cables tell the, you 15 know -- are what makes the emergency system 16 kick in and tells the people in the little 17 booths or whatever what's going on. And just 18 recently, the GAO said that there's so much 19 cable failure has been noted at nuclear plants 20 in the last ten years or so. Eighty-three 21 instances of cables that are rotted. The ones 22 that are cased in cement are very difficult to 23 observe and to analyze. 24 Now, since this -- and the reason we did 25 this report was because of all the tritium 35 Gale Wayman 1 leaks at the plants. These huge tritium leaks 2 had led to the soil becoming super saturated. 3 We've had a number of them at Oyster Creek. 4 So, therefore, we are concerned. How are these 5 cables being monitored? This is safety 6 equipment. This is very important. So a 7 combination of the GAO office saying, hey, 8 there's a problem, and who's -- who's minding 9 the store with the cables? I'm not talking 10 about the piping here because I know Exelon 11 raised the piping and put that in -- 12 Am I right, Patrick? 13 MR. MULLIGAN: Uh-hum. 14 MS. GOTSCH: They raised that and put 15 that special kind of storage. But we haven't 16 heard what they're doing with the cables. And 17 so we're concerned about the cables that are 18 being buried in the cement. And even though 19 you say we shouldn't be talking about this, we 20 see this tied to emergency preparedness. We 21 have a crippled plant down there. Two hot 22 shutdowns. That is not good. 23 So and in terms of just previously when 24 you were saying -- I'm a nurse, and I 25 understand decontamination and all that. We 36 Gale Wayman 1 had a nurse that worked as a responder -- you 2 know, in the emergency room at Toms River 3 Hospital. And she said if we had a deal with 4 contaminated people at this hospital, we would 5 be absolutely besides ourselves. This is very 6 serious. It's not easy to decontaminate a 7 person. 8 And so the feeling I'm getting is we're 9 not ready. We are not ready here. We're not 10 telling people. We don't know what to do with 11 them. And the plant is falling apart. We're 12 just a little alarmed. 13 But thank you for your time. 14 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 15 The next commenter, Gale Wayman. 16 MS. WAYMAN: Good afternoon. It's 17 G-a-l-e, W-a-y-m-a-n. 18 And, yes, I do live within the ten-mile 19 area. I don't recall getting too much 20 information every year about what's happening 21 here. 22 My question has to do with not only the 23 problems of today, but -- I'm the first time 24 I've ever come to a meeting. I was watching 25 Hurricane Sandy hit. I was out of the country. 37 Gale Wayman 1 And my first thought was, we have that plant. 2 What happens if it gets flooded? And we would 3 never evacuate in a hurricane like that. What 4 would happen to our population? I have two 5 sons, and their families that live in this 6 area. They're impacted by it. I was 7 concerned. I still am concerned. 8 And I would like to know what the -- and 9 I'm not sure -- it seemed to me that you were 10 supposed to close in '09. Is that correct? 11 And you've been extended to '19? I'm not 12 perfect in my numbers but -- 13 MR. ORLANDO: I think you're referring 14 to the licensing of the plant? 15 MS. WAYMAN: Yes. When is it going to 16 be closed? 17 MR. ORLANDO: It's currently licensed by 18 the NRC until 2029. However, the State has an 19 Administrative Consent Order that requires them 20 to shut down on or before December 31st, 2019. 21 MS. WAYMAN: Okay. And what about all 22 the problems that they're having? 23 MR. ORLANDO: That -- those questions we 24 can talk about off-line after the meeting. 25 That's not germane to the topic that we're here 38 Gale Wayman 1 to discuss in the public forum. 2 But there were some questions you had 3 about evacuation in a hurricane type of event. 4 I think -- and maybe Al can address how that 5 would be handled if there was, in fact, a 6 nuclear portion to that or component. 7 MR. SMITH: Hi. 8 MS. WAYMAN: Hi. 9 MR. SMITH: Thanks for the question. We 10 appreciate it. 11 Well, we did, I believe, when Hurricane 12 Sandy was involved, we successfully evacuated 13 the barrier islands twice. And so we did a 14 real good job in doing that. And we would do 15 the same if we had a nuclear power plant 16 accident. There's a very robust traffic 17 control plan and access control plan that is 18 put in place with the state, county, and 19 municipalities. We train on it. We drill on 20 it. We exercise in front of FEMA. We do the 21 evaluations. So we feel very confident that we 22 have a very strong and robust plan to evacuate 23 the people. And, like I said, we did 24 successful, real time, real life, evacuate the 25 barrier islands twice. So we're pretty 39 Gale Wayman 1 confidant in our plan, ma'am. 2 MS. WAYMAN: Okay. Because you're going 3 to have to evacuate the people that were 4 evacuated in the barrier islands. I know 5 friends of mine stayed at High School North 6 here in Toms River. 7 MR. SMITH: Yes. 8 MS. WAYMAN: We're too close. You're 9 going to have move them far. And there's 10 hundreds of thousands if you consider -- 11 MR. SMITH: Well, we currently have six 12 reception centers in the area. And that goes 13 back to your contamination and monitoring, that 14 type of stuff. So we would open up those six 15 reception centers in coordination with the 16 County. 17 MS. WAYMAN: Where are they? 18 MR. SMITH: Hold a second. I'll read 19 them to you right now. 20 Pinelands Regional High School. Brick 21 Town High School. Jackson Liberty High School. 22 Manchester Middle High School -- or High 23 School. Lakewood High School and Manchester 24 High School. Those are the six reception 25 centers we have. 40 Gale Wayman 1 MS. WAYMAN: Where is Pinelands? 2 MR. SMITH: And what we -- pardon me? 3 MS. WAYMAN: Where is Pinelands? 4 MR. SMITH: Pinelands is in Little Egg 5 Harbor. 6 MS. WAYMAN: And that's -- 7 MR. SMITH: Well, that's the reason why. 8 We're moving people out. 9 MS. WAYMAN: Okay. 10 MR. SMITH: So what we would do 11 initially, depending on what emergency response 12 plan is effected and evacuation orders are in 13 those orders, would be where you go, end up at 14 one of those reception centers. So as the 15 messages go over the local radio station and TV 16 to direct people to evacuate, and there's a 17 protective action that's made by the Governor, 18 indicating what those -- the short term, the 19 acronym is ERPA, Emergency Responsive Planning 20 Areas. As that goes out, they'll also put in a 21 broadcast that says, these ERPAs would be 22 required to go to whatever high school. 23 MS. WAYMAN: But I also had watched on 24 TV what happened in Japan. 25 MR. SMITH: Right. 41 William DeCamp, Jr. 1 MS. WAYMAN: And that was frightening. 2 MR. SMITH: And, ma'am, I -- I agree 3 with you. But their plans and their responses 4 are not regulated like we are. Okay? They did 5 not have the same off-site emergency plans that 6 we do here in the United States. All -- all 7 104 reactors in the United States fall under 8 the same -- same guidelines and drilling and 9 exercise requirements with FEMA and NRC. Very 10 robust program. And it's been -- you know, 11 it's been built up over the years since the 12 accident at Three Mile Island in 1979. And 13 it's improved over the years with drills, 14 critiques, more drills. More review of 15 procedures, documents and updates. And we feel 16 very comfortable that we can implement the 17 plan. 18 MS. WAYMAN: Okay. So we can rest 19 assured that we are going to be closing the 20 plant in '19? 21 MR. SMITH: Well, ma'am, we would not. 22 We're not the licensee. We're just the 23 governing agency -- 24 MS. WAYMAN: Who is? 25 MR. SMITH: The licensee is Exelon, 42 William DeCamp, Jr. 1 ma'am. And those are the people who will 2 determine whether it's going to close on or 3 before December 31st, 2019. What -- 4 MR. ORLANDO: And just -- I can pick up 5 on that. 6 MR. SMITH: Yeah. You want to pick up 7 on it? 8 MR. ORLANDO: There is an Administrative 9 Consent Order. That's a legal document with 10 the Department of Environmental Protection that 11 stipulates that they must shut down or reduce 12 to the level of water usage that a cooling 13 tower would have provided at that point. And 14 so they have agreed to those stipulations. 15 MS. WAYMAN: If the plant were shut down 16 during a hurricane, would it still be in danger 17 of having a meltdown if their generators or 18 whatever -- to cool -- would it then cause 19 problems? Like it did -- that's what happened 20 in Japan? Their power source was cut. 21 MR. MULLIGAN: Right now there's an 22 initiative that the NRC took on a -- what was 23 called a near-term task force that wrote a 24 report to address those issues for station 25 blackouts where they have lost all off-site and 43 William DeCamp, Jr. 1 on-site power. And the industry right now is 2 going through and addressing all of those 3 issues to ensure that they've got mitigation 4 strategies in place that can deal with extended 5 blackouts out at the site. So it's an NRC 6 requirement. It's an industry requirement. 7 And they are working towards that goal right 8 now. 9 A lot of those have been implemented. A 10 lot of the equipment, you know, has been 11 purchased. And so moving towards making sure 12 that they've got other strategies in place. 13 But if there were a station blackout for an 14 extended period of time such as the situation 15 in Japan that they would be able to manage and 16 deal with that without having a meltdown as a 17 result. 18 MS. WAYMAN: How soon before Oyster 19 Creek is totally prepared? You said they're 20 working on it. 21 MR. MULLIGAN: I can get back with the 22 exact requirement date, but I know that they 23 are ahead of schedule with getting a lot of the 24 equipment on-site. So, I mean, I need to get 25 back to you and find out where they're at. I 44 William DeCamp, Jr. 1 know what the -- you know, the deadline date 2 is. I can get that hard fact for you. 3 MS. WAYMAN: Okay. Thank you. 4 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 5 Next commenter, William DeCamp, Jr. 6 MR. DeCAMP: DeCamp is spelled 7 D-e-C-a-m-p, and I live in Mantoloking. 8 Rhetorically, it could be asked with 9 respect to the successful evacuations of the 10 barrier islands during Hurricane Sandy whether 11 the Weather Channel will be announcing a 12 nuclear emergency five days in advance. 13 It can also be pointed out that in order 14 to get off of Long Beach Island in a nuclear 15 emergency, you have to drive toward the hazard. 16 That's the only way out, is to drive toward the 17 hazard. And many of those people will be 18 panicking, and I don't think more needs to be 19 said with respect to that. 20 I have a question and a suggestion 21 regarding the absence of a berm separating the 22 high-level nuclear waste, which is 400 feet 23 from Route 9. All you have in between the 24 high-level nuclear waste and Route 9 today is 25 some trees. And I think experts will 45 William DeCamp, Jr. 1 corroborate my impression that that's no 2 barrier at all to gamma radiation. So you have 3 one of the only -- basically in that part of 4 the county at that latitude, there's only two 5 north/south roads basically, the Parkway and 6 Route 9. So what you obviously need, if you 7 want to protect emergency workers if they come 8 to deal with, you know, some sort of attack on 9 the high-level nuclear waste, the dry storage 10 facility 400 feet from the road, is a berm so 11 that they can, you know, react to the emergency 12 and not be, you know, excluded from the area by 13 gamma radiation. 14 With respect to Ms. Tauro's comment, 15 I -- you know, personally I'm sort of not 16 interested in getting a letter or hearing 17 someone got a letter saying don't worry about 18 the amount of radiation that was found in those 19 spikes. It wasn't of such a degree that it 20 will cause harm to you. That's not what I 21 think is relevant. What's relevant is that in 22 my understanding, the management of the plant 23 stated that there was no problem with respect 24 to operation. That they were looking at parts, 25 not in operation and they thought, hmm, if 46 William DeCamp, Jr. 1 those parts looked like that, that the prudent 2 thing to do would be to stop the plant even 3 though there was no sign of anything going 4 wrong. So the possible ramification of the 5 evidence that Ms. Tauro is presenting would be 6 that the management was less than truthful or 7 less than competent. 8 And what makes that so interesting to 9 me, and it's coming to a question, is that in 10 the three most famous nuclear accidents, Three 11 Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima, in all 12 three accidents, a major defining feature of it 13 all was denial on the part of the operators. 14 Gorbachev will tell you that and Naoto Kan will 15 tell you that and Governor Thornburgh will tell 16 you that. 17 And so we see, you know -- I mean, 18 denial is just a very, very human thing. I 19 think that's what decent people when you've 20 been a part of a mistake on that level. In a 21 way it sort of shows, you know, the decency of 22 the plant operator. The human brain is not 23 programmed to admit what went wrong. 24 And so given that in, you know, a 25 hundred percent of the cases of major nuclear 47 Peggi Sturmfels 1 accidents that the operators were putting out 2 incorrect information in a very high degree, I 3 would like to know, how does your emergency 4 response planning deal with the near certainty 5 that you will be getting information from the 6 plant management which, for the most human of 7 reasons, is unreliable? 8 MR. ORLANDO: Let me see if I can phrase 9 that in a -- to the panel in a way that's 10 relevant to the emergency response planning. 11 What I hear is, okay, if there are other 12 indicators that there's a problem and we're not 13 getting that information from the source, which 14 is what the licensee -- in other words, Oyster 15 Creek -- how would we be able to respond 16 differently? 17 Patrick, maybe you can talk about that. 18 MR. DeCAMP: Well, if I can just refine 19 my question a little bit. Very briefly. 20 You're getting information from them. 21 MR. ORLANDO: Right. 22 MR. DeCAMP: And you've got to sort of 23 assign a degree of probability to it as to its 24 correctness. And so how do you -- how do you 25 deal with that? Do you just say, well, they 48 Peggi Sturmfels 1 called. They said this. It's got to be true. 2 How do you size that up? 3 MR. ORLANDO: Well, I'm going under the 4 scenario that you're saying that there's an 5 emergency in place, and we're not hearing it 6 from the plant. 7 MR. DeCAMP: Well, you are hearing it 8 from the plant. But have no way of knowing -- 9 MR. ORLANDO: Oh, that we're -- 10 MR. DeCAMP: -- the accuracy or the 11 veracity. 12 MR. ORLANDO: Well -- 13 MR. MULLIGAN: Can I? 14 We don't -- for the technical 15 information that's ongoing during an accident, 16 we don't rely on the licensee to give us 17 information. We're actually collocated with 18 them at their emergency facility looking at 19 their plant computer system directly. So it's 20 not a question of getting good or accurate 21 information from them. We are looking at the 22 actual plant computer systems that are 23 measuring the values inside the plant. So 24 we're looking at the accident with the same 25 level of detail that the licensees are. 49 Peggi Sturmfels 1 In addition, too, that there's a 2 requirement that each licensee has to send a 3 number of plant parameters from their computer 4 systems directly to NRC under their emergency 5 response data system. So not only do we get 6 the information directly from collocating with 7 the licensee at the facility where we do the 8 assessment, but the NRC also has access to that 9 data from their regional headquarters and from 10 their headquarters in DC. So it's not like we 11 need to validate the information. We're 12 looking at real plant data. 13 MR. DeCAMP: Yes. Well -- yeah. 14 MR. MULLIGAN: And that is much 15 different than what happened in Japan. They 16 had no plant access to the data. 17 MR. DeCAMP: It's an assumption that 18 your people won't be dragged into the same 19 psychological phenomenon that the operators are 20 dragged into. Because it may not be their 21 pride that puts them in this denial. It just 22 may be the fact that their decent people, and 23 they can't get their brain around it. And if 24 that's what's happening, that your persons 25 on-site would be subject to the same human 50 Peggi Sturmfels 1 failing. But that's my feeling on the subject. 2 And thank you. 3 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 4 MS. PFAFF: Is there any other people 5 that would like to speak? Or that want to fill 6 out your registration card. 7 I have yours, Peggi. I'm going to give 8 it to Paul right now. I'll give him this. 9 Are there any others? 10 MR. ORLANDO: Peggi Sturmfels. I'm 11 sorry. I chewed that up a little bit. 12 MS. STURMFELS: That's okay. You were 13 closer than most. 14 I'm going to put this down, try not the 15 blow out the circuit. 16 I'm Peggi Sturmfels. Clean Water 17 Action. Also a County resident over 30 years. 18 I had some points that in your 19 descriptions I wanted to sort of follow up on. 20 You talked about the sirens and how they're 21 activated within that area. There's two points 22 on that. If you are a visitor renting a house 23 on Long Beach Island and you are from the town 24 of Fair Haven or Red Bank or Little Silver, and 25 a siren goes off, you automatically assume, if 51 Peggi Sturmfels 1 you have been a lifelong resident of those 2 towns, that it's a fire somewhere. Because 3 what they do in those towns is they sound the 4 sirens and that indicates which firemen go 5 where. And so unless you have something there 6 to describe to you that the sirens are only 7 going to go off in case of an emergency with 8 the nuclear power plant that you may not know 9 that is even there or how to get off the 10 Island, you know, those -- that's pretty, 11 that's -- you know, that's bad. 12 And during Sandy 38 of the 42 sirens did 13 not work. And so we were told that Plan B or C 14 or D, whichever, wherever place you want to go 15 down the line, was that they were going to 16 stand out in 90-mile an hour winds on the 17 Boulevard in wet weather telling people where 18 to go. It's just not feasible. It's not even 19 imaginable. So I just wanted to, you know, 20 follow up on the sirens. 21 Couple of years ago we had talked about, 22 with all the boating courses that are given, 23 and they're required now for all the folks that 24 are out in our waterways -- especially in this 25 area of Ocean County where people are up and 52 Janet Tauro 1 down the bay and the inlets and stuff -- that 2 they were going to be producing something and 3 giving it out during the water safety -- during 4 a water test or classes that these people must 5 take. I was told it was done. And then I have 6 talked to a lot of people since then who have 7 been taking the boating courses, and they are 8 not receiving any of this literature. And I 9 don't think it's on the on-line course yet. 10 And we talked about that two years ago, also. 11 That's another way of getting out 12 information. And all of these people are 13 bringing their boats from North Jersey down 14 here or, you know, South Jersey up here, 15 wherever they're coming from, and they don't 16 have any clue as to the area they're coming 17 into. And you give them that piece of 18 information, you're just going to make a little 19 bit safer. 20 We talked about this two years ago. 21 Everybody thought it was a great idea. I'd 22 really like to see it followed up on. And if 23 it was done once, then we need to keep checking 24 to make sure that it's done over and over. 25 Same thing with preschools. Same thing with 53 Janet Tauro 1 daycare centers. And we have to make sure -- 2 and clubs. We talked about it with sports 3 clubs and things where all these kids are out 4 on the field after school. So the school is 5 not in charge of the evacuation now, but the 6 sports club is or the coach for maybe a 7 township or recreation program. Do they have 8 information on how to safely evacuate kids in 9 the event of a nuclear emergency? Which is 10 different than evacuation in a hurricane or 11 some of the other kinds of disasters that might 12 happen. 13 The six areas that you've mentioned 14 for -- 15 MR. SMITH: Reception centers. 16 MS. STURMFELS: The six centers, if 17 there is an event at nuclear power plant, and 18 you take them up to Jackson Liberty High 19 School, that's all well and good if there's 20 only a nuclear event. If you are now taking 21 them there for -- because everybody is going to 22 evacuation shelters for hurricane or some other 23 disaster, you may be full up, which is what 24 happened during the hurricane. People were 25 full up with their centers, not because of a 54 Gale Wayman 1 nuclear event but because of a hurricane. You 2 add into it a nuclear event where you're 3 bringing these people out from that ten-mile 4 radius, you've already got the secondary, 5 third, fourth people already there. 6 MR. SMITH: Right. 7 MS. STURMFELS: That's a big problem, 8 and no one has addressed it. And I've asked 9 for the for three years in a row, and I've 10 never gotten a response. Nor has nobody that I 11 know in the ten-mile area from Exelon saying 12 that we're here, so this is what you do. 13 Sixty order to stay. You know. 14 Oh, you know, and the other thing is, 15 just to follow up a little bit on the point 16 that Mr. DeCamp made. I had an absolute honor 17 to sit and speak with and talk to the former 18 prime minister of Japan, Mr. Kan. And when he 19 was talking about some of the things that 20 happened, he -- the Prime Minister of Japan -- 21 directly ordered 60 of the TEPCO personnel to 22 stay at the plant, the technicians, because 23 they were the only ones that would know what to 24 do if anything happened. Forty of them left. 25 Against the prime minister's order. TEPCO 55 Gale Wayman 1 denied that they left. And then -- but the 2 only reason that they found out that they did 3 leave was because the manager who wrote this in 4 a confession -- I mean, he since has passed 5 away from radiation, by the way -- he is the 6 one who said they've now got a law in Japan 7 that they can't talk about the experiences 8 there. But he did because he knew he was 9 dying. 10 So his -- his -- Mr. DeCamp's scenario 11 is absolutely right. They're not telling the 12 truth, and they are not also -- these people 13 are, you know, human nature. I know a lots of 14 bus drivers who are not going to be driving 15 from Brick and Jackson and other towns down to 16 Oyster Creek to pick the kids up and bring them 17 out because they have families, too. 18 Thank you for your time. 19 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 20 Is there anyone who hasn't spoken who 21 would like to take the opportunity to speak? 22 (No response.) 23 MS. TAURO: You still got time? 24 MR. ORLANDO: Well, and then, is there 25 anybody who has spoken who would like to 56 Gale Wayman 1 approach? Do we want to do it in the same 2 order? Why don't we do that. 3 And, Miss Tauro, do you want to come 4 forward? 5 MS. TAURO: I just want to clarify a 6 little bit because I want to follow up on what 7 Willie said. Yeah. 8 We don't just want, you know, the real-- 9 well, we do want the real time radiation levels 10 for July. But what we really want is the DEP 11 to investigate that July 7th shutdown. We 12 really want an investigation and a very, very 13 detailed account of what actually happened. 14 And I -- and I do need to also apprise 15 you of something else because we also have data 16 from July 14th. And on July 14th, actually. 17 We saw a 44 percent increase in radiation at 18 this site above the baseline. And that was the 19 day after the aborted attempt to bring the 20 reactor back on-line when they experienced the 21 vacuum problem. So you need to get to the 22 bottom of really what happened during this 23 time. And it's not surprising that they are on 24 increased oversight for this. 25 And, also, to bear in mind -- to bear in 57 Jeffrey Brown 1 mind that we're talking about radiological 2 releases that the public is exposed to. And 3 let's bear in mind the NAS study, the national 4 Academy of Science study, the Bureau Center 5 report that said there is no safe amount of low 6 level radiation -- of continuous exposure to 7 radiation. There just isn't any safe level. 8 And this is what we're being exposed to. 9 Thank you. 10 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 11 MS. WAYMAN: Just a couple of items. 12 I think the magic ten-mile zone is -- is 13 kind of a myth. But I did want to say that the 14 research around Chernobyl found out that the 15 highest radiation levels that the children, 16 especially, were absorbing occurred at the 17 15-mile level, and you can check that because 18 it's in the statistics. So, therefore -- and 19 in Japan, it depended on where the plume went. 20 They actually were evacuating people right into 21 the plume. So the myth of the ten-mile zone is 22 that; it's a myth. It all depend on where the 23 plume goes and all these centers that the 24 children are supposed to be moved to are 25 usually right in the zone where the most 58 Jeffrey Brown 1 radiation -- at least in Chernobyl -- was -- 2 was coming down on these people. 3 The other thing is that this -- there's 4 talk about not having to have such an important 5 emergency plan once -- once the plant closes. 6 That does not hold true because of the nuclear 7 waste that will be sitting there, God knows how 8 long, because there's no -- we don't have a 9 place to put it. And there is very dangerous 10 high -- what they call high burn-up level fuel 11 there mixed in with the other. And they are in 12 casts. Yes. And casted very well at Cher -- 13 at Fukushima. But they still have to -- they 14 have a life and they eventually -- that stuff 15 has to be put into other casts. 16 So the emergency plan, I would think, 17 Patrick, would have to go right on for years, 18 as long as that spent fuel is housed there. 19 Because that fuel, if anything happened with 20 that, that's a horrendous nuclear accident. 21 So I think -- I'm afraid -- okay. What 22 I wanted to say is that when Chernobyl 23 happened, people said, oh, that's just those 24 Russians. They didn't even have a roof on it. 25 They didn't even have a containment vessel. 59 Jeffrey Brown 1 They're backward. And then when Fukushima 2 happened -- oh, now, it's because those 3 Japanese don't -- they don't know what they're 4 doing. This is a very, very smart bunch of 5 people in Japan. A lot of them have very good 6 engineers and very good scientists. It's just 7 people -- it's just human nature to get too -- 8 to just let your guard down. And we kind of 9 feel like it's kind of lackadaisical, the whole 10 thing. Like everybody's keeping their fingers 11 crossed. We really don't have to worry because 12 it's not going to happen. But that's not true. 13 We went to Washington to the NRC and met 14 with one of the commissioners, Apostokakis. 15 And we sat with him and said, there is no 16 protection at a nuclear plant for a core basis 17 accident without filtered vents. And he said, 18 oh, no. That can't be true. His staff was 19 sitting behind us. He referred to his staff. 20 Is what she's saying true? They said, yes. 21 So we do not have adequate protection to 22 the public against a core accident at any of 23 the big boiling water reactors. And they're 24 not going to do anything about that. They're 25 not going to put in the filtered vents. So if 60 Jeffrey Brown 1 something happens, it's all going to -- 2 radiation is all going to come out. 3 MR. ORLANDO: Okay. 4 MS. WAYMAN: Okay. And I just want to 5 say it's our children that will bear the brunt 6 of it if it does. So I just hope that we're 7 not operating with our fingers crossed and 8 lackadaisical here. This is important stuff. 9 Thank you for your time. 10 MR. ORLANDO: Thank you. 11 MR. BROWN: Hi. Two questions. One, I 12 would just like to ask if there's any 13 possibility that the State Department will 14 respond to the EPA recommendations regarding 15 changing their standards by August 1st? Or by 16 August 3rd? Do we have any chance of getting 17 any testimony in to them? 18 MR. MULLIGAN: It's not a regular plan, 19 but we are reviewing -- you're talking about 40 20 CFR 190? 21 MR. BROWN: Yes. Correct. 22 MR. MULLIGAN: Yes. We are reviewing 23 that, and we are preparing comments. 24 MR. BROWN: Oh, great. Thank you. 25 And, secondly, I would just like to ask 61 Peggi Sturmfels 1 Mr. Smith. You said that you're basically 2 going by the regulations of the ten-mile zone. 3 MR. SMITH: Right. 4 MR. BROWN: Is there anything that would 5 enable the State to do more than ten miles 6 other than an NRC change in their regulations? 7 Because, I mean, if it does progress beyond the 8 ten-mile zone, you're going to have to deal 9 with communities beyond that. So in terms of 10 being proactive, what's -- what would it take 11 for the State to take the initiative and not 12 rely on the NRC regs? 13 MR. SMITH: Well, currently there are no 14 plans to expand the ten-mile EPZ. But as I 15 said before, there is the -- in the plan the 16 50-mile ingestion pathway. And I would 17 actually let Pat explain that a little bit more 18 on the 50-mile ingestion pathway. But as one 19 of the commenters said before, there's no magic 20 line at ten miles, and we understand that. And 21 so the plan is written, and it's flexible 22 enough to address ad hoc situations. 23 Situations where we may have to go further out. 24 But the immediate effects are really in your 25 two-mile to five-mile range. 62 Peggi Sturmfels 1 And I would let Pat go on. Could you 2 expand on that more? If you wouldn't mind? 3 MR. MULLIGAN: Uh-hum. Yeah. 4 MR. BROWN: That's okay. I do 5 understand the ten-mile zone. 6 MR. SMITH: You do understand. 7 MR. BROWN: We're concerned more with 8 the need to evacuate or shelter in place. 9 MR. SMITH: Right. 10 MR. BROWN: And particularly the 11 evacuations since that's where you're going to 12 run into problems. 13 MR. SMITH: Right. 14 MR. BROWN: That's okay. I understand. 15 MR. SMITH: You understand. 16 MR. MULLIGAN: If I could just really 17 quick make the comment that, you know, the 18 ten-mile planning area is just that. It's an 19 area about which we plan for, based on, you 20 know, the knowledge that we've had on reactor 21 safety studies. That's not to say that if we 22 need to evacuate -- and I know we're talking 23 ingestion -- but if there is the need, we will 24 go beyond that. But as a day-to-day planning 25 basis to get a core of organizations and groups 63 Peggi Sturmfels 1 that drill and know what they're doing on a 2 regular basis so that we can expand that out, 3 that's why we plan for the ten miles. That's 4 not to say that we cannot evacuate beyond ten 5 miles if we need to. 6 MR. BROWN: Right. But if we're going 7 to have this waste there to, let's say, 2048 is 8 the soonest that the Blue Ribbon Commission and 9 the DOE have said we could have an interim 10 storage site, which is a pathetic solution. So 11 we're going to get stuck with this waste until 12 at least 2048 at Oyster Creek. It's going to 13 stay there. It's going to be vulnerable. 14 Meaning, we're going to have to deal with a 15 possibility of a mess there. So it seems to me 16 between now and 2048. If you went out two 17 miles, one community a year or something, and 18 incorporate in them in our planning, by the 19 time this thing is over, you would have your 50 20 miles covered. Just a suggestion. 21 MR. SMITH: Well, I will say that we 22 have an initiative. We haven't started it yet. 23 But we are going to deal with all 21 counties 24 and address the issue of ingestion pathway. 25 And at least let their emergency management 64 Peggi Sturmfels 1 coordinators and whoever else they want to 2 bring to the county meetings understand the 3 importance the plan moving forward and the 4 potential that they may be requested at certain 5 times to do certain is things. So we are 6 planning to give the 21 counties an overview up 7 at the Regional Operations Intelligence Center 8 in West Trenton where I work. And that's going 9 to be happening, hopefully, by the end of the 10 year. 11 MR. BROWN: That would be great. 12 Thank you. 13 MR. ORLANDO: Miss Sturmfels? 14 MS. STURMFELS: I'm sorry. I forgot to 15 ask before. You know, given all the 16 construction on the Garden State Parkway and 17 the other major roadways and stuff, I don't 18 know if you have, any of you, have traveled 19 down 35 and down beyond that, but all of the 20 shoulders and the new construction. They have, 21 like, paved over it just for the summer. And 22 that's all going to be dug up again. It's just 23 because we wanted to accommodate tourists and 24 folks coming, we paved it over to make it look 25 a little nicer. There's still barrels along 65 Peggi Sturmfels 1 every street corner in the beach towns and 2 stuff. And that's all going to be back in, you 3 know -- but there's still all of this 4 construction stuff around. And have your new 5 plans taken into account any of that? All this 6 construction, the debris, the trucks, the added 7 people who are, you know, rebuilding the shore? 8 Have you -- and the roadways? 9 MR. SMITH: A lot of the plans are 10 maintained by, as I said, the local and county 11 municipalities -- or local municipalities. So 12 each municipality that has a traffic control 13 plan understands their road impediments, 14 understand what routes to take. And so they 15 would act accordingly. That's -- you know, we 16 don't actually tell the municipality, you know, 17 to look out how many barrels there are, that 18 type of stuff. It's up to them to make sure 19 that they have the appropriate assets in place 20 to implement the plan. 21 MS. STURMFELS: Okay. 22 The staffing cuts for the DEP? Has that 23 caused any change in your plans or how your 24 plans are looked at, your oversight of plants? 25 MR. MULLIGAN: We've actually added 66 Peggi Sturmfels 1 staff. 2 MS. STURMFELS: Oh, good for you. I'm 3 so happy. 4 MR. MULLIGAN: This past year. 5 MR. ORLANDO: I think we're looking at 6 seven here. 7 MS. STURMFELS: We're glad to here that. 8 MR. MULLIGAN: So the impact has been 9 minimized. 10 MS. STURMFELS: Okay. Thank you very 11 much. 12 MR. SMITH: I'd like to comment on the 13 plan, too. 14 MS. STURMFELS: Okay. 15 MR. SMITH: We take that plan every year 16 and do a very thorough review of it. And we 17 also send it over to the Bureau of Nuclear 18 Engineering and let them do a thorough review 19 of their sections. And then we culminate those 20 comments and put them into the a final document 21 and submit it to FEMA for review and approval 22 every year. And along with that plan, we 23 submit all of our drills, exercises, anything 24 that we've done to maintain the programs, 25 training, exposure control training, 67 Joseph Scarpelli 1 information we send out to the public, siren 2 tests. A whole host of issues get put together 3 in a binder and report that is sent out as 4 what's called a PR-1, Periodic Review report. 5 MS. STURMFELS: Uh-hum. 6 MR. SMITH: You're familiar with it? 7 MS. STURMFELS: Uh-hum. 8 MR. SMITH: Okay. Good. 9 MS. STURMFELS: We've been doing this 11 10 years. Some of us have grown old together. 11 MR. SMITH: I'm sorry. This is my -- 12 I've been involved with this about 30-some-odd 13 years. This is my first time at dais. Forgive 14 me. 15 And, you know, once that plan is 16 reviewed and accepted, then FEMA will send us 17 an approval that the program is intact and, you 18 know, they approve it. 19 MS. STURMFELS: But part of the problem 20 for me is that all the drills and all, they are 21 tabletop exercises. 22 MR. SMITH: Not all tabletop exercises. 23 MS. STURMFELS: And I really wonder 24 whether some of this new stuff that's been 25 happening whether the townships are even able 68 Joseph Scarpelli 1 to keep on top of that to put that into the 2 binder. 3 MR. SMITH: Right. 4 MS. STURMFELS: You know, that, you 5 know, this road is now -- doesn't exist. 6 MR. SMITH: One of the things when we do 7 the exercises from the State at the Regional 8 Operations Intelligence Center, we'll actually 9 have our field ops person there, a trooper, 10 reach out down to the county and the county 11 reaches out then to the municipalities and 12 says, okay. There's a potential for these 13 areas to be evacuated. 14 MS. STURMFELS: Uh-hum. 15 MR. SMITH: Are there any road 16 impediments? Start getting ready. So we 17 don't -- we don't flick a switch at a general 18 emergency and start evacuating people. We 19 start the minute we enter the SCOC, the State 20 of New Jersey Operation Center in one of these 21 exercises, we start preparing for a potential 22 evacuating. So we start putting assets in 23 place and start calling for those assets to be 24 ready and -- and gather all the information we 25 need. So that when and if that evacuation has 69 Joseph Scarpelli 1 to occur, we can go ahead and flick that switch 2 and say we're comfortable now. There's no road 3 impediments. The reception centers have been 4 opened. The water has been cleared, and so on 5 and so forth. There's a whole -- there's a 6 bunch of stuff we go through. And they are 7 called precautionary actions. So that's how we 8 drill and exercise. We don't just wait until 9 the last minute to get, you know -- to get 10 things on the table. 11 MS. STURMFELS: Okay. I just want to 12 comment on the NRC. You said there was an NRC 13 plan that they had looked at Fukushima, and 14 they were making recommendations. And they did 15 make the recommendations to put hardened vents 16 in all the plants. And just for your 17 information, Exelon has requested a waiver. So 18 they don't plan on doing it. 19 MR. SCARPELLI: I haven't spoken before, 20 but would it be possible for me to make a 21 comment? 22 MR. ORLANDO: Can we just -- if you 23 could come to the mike, please. 24 MR. SCARPELLI: Sure. 25 MR. ORLANDO: Do we get a card? 70 1 MR. SCARPELLI: My name is Joseph 2 Scarpelli, S-c-a-r-p-e-l-l-i. I'm from Brick 3 Township, New Jersey, which is not in the 4 ten-mile zone, but we're very concerned about. 5 But let me tell you why. 6 I wasn't going to speak tonight until I 7 heard something on the radio, and I don't know 8 if you gentlemen heard about this, but -- and I 9 think it brings more reality to what we're 10 talking about. And we've been talking about 11 this for a long time. 12 But Tel Aviv Airport was recipient of a 13 terrorist attack. It's closed. I think it's 14 the first time that airport has been closed in 15 the history of that part of the world. All 16 major airlines have now suspended flights into 17 Tel Aviv Airport. And the Israeli Government 18 is very upset, because they said it could never 19 happen here. So my question really to you 20 is -- and we all know what happened September 21 11th -- of course, that could have never 22 happened. As part of your preparedness plan, 23 have you taken into account, have you had the 24 capacity to receive information of possible 25 terrorist attacks? 71 1 MR. SMITH: Yes. We do. We practice 2 what you call a "hostile action drill." 3 Hostile action based drill. We call them HABs, 4 if you will. And we conducted at Salem Hope 5 Creek. 6 MR. SCARPELLI: Right. 7 MR. SMITH: An exercise we conducted 8 down there where we involve basically all the 9 state assets as far as TEAMS -- TEAMS is a very 10 elite unit in the state police and other county 11 assets, SWAT teams, and they come to a unified 12 command center. And they deal with the terror 13 threat. 14 But in addition to that, I believe if -- 15 and correct me if I'm wrong -- there is the NRC 16 receives threats and other agencies, the FBI 17 and the -- receive threats. And if they are a 18 credible threat to one of our stations here, 19 that is relayed very quickly to the licensee, 20 and then to us. And then it's not something 21 that's broadcast over the radio. 22 MR. SCARPELLI: I know. 23 MR. SMITH: It's very, very -- you know, 24 it's on a need-to-know basis. And it's a 25 security issue. And then we're -- we're -- we 72 1 put assets into place very quickly. So there 2 is -- the new regulations do call for hostile 3 action based drills, and they're a separate 4 drill unto itself, not to do basically with the 5 release of radiation, but to deal specifically 6 with terroristic attacks. 7 MR. SCARPELLI: Well, I think the object 8 of me getting up -- and I said I wasn't going 9 to -- but you have an awesome responsibility. 10 I compliment you on what you've done over the 11 years. Because I was here -- I was at the 12 first hearing when was at -- I guess it was at 13 Robert Miller. It was a long, long time ago. 14 And all we do were playing computer games. But 15 you have an awesome responsibility. And I just 16 want to leave you with that. I compliment you. 17 But we have to be so vigilant, because it can 18 never happen here. And I know about hurricanes 19 and stuff. But I'm really more concerned about 20 something like this, because you're never going 21 to have a five-hour or five-day or a warning. 22 And it's a very easy place to get to. 23 MR. SMITH: Okay. No doubt. 24 MR. SCARPELLI: I know that. Presently. 25 Thank you very much. 73 1 God bless you. Keep up the good work. 2 MR. SMITH: Thank you, sir. 3 MR. ORLANDO: Okay. I believe everyone 4 has had an opportunity to speak regarding the 5 Emergency Response Plan. Unless there's 6 anybody who has anything else about the New 7 Jersey Response Plan, I'm going to call the 8 public hearing to a close. 9 And I want to thank you for your 10 cooperation and being orderly and for coming 11 out tonight. 12 Thank you. 13 MR. SMITH: Thank you. 14 (The hearing was concluded at 7:20 p.m.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 74 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, DARLENE SILLITOE, a Certified Court 4 Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New 5 Jersey, certify that the foregoing is a true 6 and accurate transcript of the proceedings. 7 8 I further certify that I am neither 9 attorney, of counsel for, nor related to or 10 employed by any of the parties to the action; 11 further that I am not a relative or employee of 12 any attorney or counsel employed in this case; 13 nor am I financially interested in the action. 14 15 16 ------------------------ 17 DARLENE SILLITOE, CCR 18 License No 30XI0102300 19 20 21 22 Dated: August 12, 2014 23 My Notary Commission Expires 24 July 22, 2019 25 ID No 2062871