1 1 RE: 2 PUBLIC HEARING THE NEW JERSEY RADIOLOGICAL 3 EMERGENCY RESPONSE PLAN FOR 4 NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS 5 7:00 p.m. 6 Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7 Location: Salem County Courthouse 92 Market Street 8 Freeholder Meeting Room Salem, New Jersey 9 P A N E L: 10 JERRY HUMPHREYS, HEARING OFFICER 11 (Nuclear Engineer, New Jerset Department of Environmental Protection's Bureau of Nuclear 12 Engineering) SGT. FIRST CLASS THOMAS SCARDINO, NJ Division 13 of State Police (Assistant Unit Head of the Radiological Emergency 14 Response Planning and Technical Unit) JON CHRISTIANSEN, NJ Division of State Police 15 (Executive Assistant in the Radiological Emergency Response Planning and Technical Unit) 16 NICK DePIERRO, NJ Department of Environmental Protection 17 (Supervisor of the DEP's Bureau of Nuclear Engineering's Emergency Preparedness Section) 18 JEFF WINEGAR, NJ Department of Health and Senior Services 19 (Response Coordinator in the Department's Operations Program for Emergency Preparedness 20 and Response) 21 22 ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. 23 Certified Court Reporters & Videographers 425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 201 24 Roseland, New Jersey 07068 (973) 228-9100 25 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 2 1 I N D E X 2 3 PANEL PAGE 4 5 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS 3, 16, 24 6 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO 6, 10, 19, 27, 36 7 NICK DEPIERRO 8, 14, 24 8 JEFF WINEGAR 11 9 JON CHRISTIANSEN 25, 30,38 10 11 12 13 PUBLIC PAGE 14 15 JANE NOGAKI 17 16 ROY JONES 27 17 HARVEY TICE 34 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 Panel Comments 1 (July 02, 2008 - 7:00 p.m.) 2 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Good evening. My 3 name is Jerry Humphreys. I'm an engineer in the 4 engineering section of the Bureau of Nuclear 5 Engineering within the New Jersey Department of 6 Environmental Protection. I will be the hearing 7 officer this evening. 8 The purpose of this hearing is to receive 9 testimony, comments, and questions regarding the 10 adequacy and effectiveness of the New Jersey 11 Radiological Emergency Response Plan for Nuclear Power 12 Plants. 13 In order that this hearing may be properly 14 documented, these proceedings are being recorded by a 15 Certified Shorthand Reporter. 16 Everyone attending this meeting is asked to 17 sign the attendance sheet before leaving. The 18 attendance sheets for these hearings are used to update 19 the Bureau of Nuclear Engineering's public hearing 20 mailing list. 21 Public notice of this hearing was published 22 in the New Jersey Register on May 16th and June 2nd, 23 2008. In addition, public notice was published in the 24 Salem Sunbeam from June 25th through July 1st, 2008. 25 Copies of the public notice for the three hearings were 4 Panel Comments 1 mailed in June to all persons who attended last year's 2 hearings. 3 This hearing will proceed as follows: I will 4 provide a brief background on why we are conducting 5 this hearing. Then I will introduce the panel members 6 and ask them to briefly describe the role of their 7 organization in nuclear emergency preparedness and 8 response. Finally, I will open the hearing for 9 comments and questions from the public. 10 The New Jersey Radiation Accident Response 11 Act requires that the Department of Environmental 12 Protection, in cooperation with the New Jersey Division 13 of State Police, conduct public hearings to take 14 comment on and to address questions relevant to the 15 adequacy and effectiveness of the New Jersey 16 Radiological Emergency Response Plan for Nuclear Power 17 Plants. 18 These public hearings are held annually in 19 each of the three counties affected by the plan: Ocean 20 County for the Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating Station, 21 and Salem and Cumberland Counties for the Salem Unit 1, 22 Salem Unit 2, and Hope Creek Nuclear Generating 23 Stations. 24 We are here tonight to listen to your 25 questions and comments on New Jersey's Nuclear 5 Panel Comments 1 Emergency Response Plan. Comments on more general 2 nuclear power issues or issues that relate to licensing 3 and regulatory matters at nuclear power plants are not 4 within the purview of this meeting and hence are not 5 appropriate and will not be addressed. 6 The purpose of the plan is to coordinate and 7 implement an immediate and comprehensive response at 8 the state, county, and municipal levels for a 9 radiological emergency associated with any nuclear 10 power plant affecting the State of New Jersey. Copies 11 of the plan are available for public inspection at the 12 Salem County Emergency Management Office in Mannington 13 Township, the Cumberland County Office of Emergency 14 Management in Bridgeton, the Ocean County Office of 15 Emergency Management in Berkeley Township, the New 16 Jersey Office of Emergency Management in West Trenton, 17 and, in public libraries in Salem, Cumberland, and 18 Ocean Counties. 19 Now I would like to introduce the members of 20 the panel. 21 Sergeant First Class Thomas Scardino and 22 Mr. Jon Christiansen are representing the New Jersey 23 Division of State Police. 24 Sergeant Scardino is the Assistant Unit Head 25 of the Radiological Emergency Response Planning and 6 Panel Comments 1 Technical Unit. 2 Mr. Christiansen is an Executive Assistant in 3 the Radiological Emergency Response Planning and 4 Technical Unit. 5 Mr. Nick DePierro is representing the New 6 Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. 7 Mr. DePierro is the supervisor of the DEP's Bureau of 8 Nuclear Engineering's Emergency Preparedness Section. 9 Mr. Jeff Winegar is representing the New 10 Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services. 11 Mr. Winegar is a Response Coordinator in the 12 Department's Operations Program for Emergency 13 Preparedness and Response. If questions arise that 14 involve responsibilities of DHSS, I will call on him 15 for a response. 16 Now I will ask Sergeant Scardino to briefly 17 describe the role of the State Police in the plan. 18 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Thank you, 19 Jerry. 20 Good evening. For the record, my name is 21 Sergeant First Class Thomas Scardino. I am the 22 Assistant Unit Supervisor of the Radiological Emergency 23 Response Planning and Technical Unit. And I am 24 representing the State Office of Emergency Management 25 within the Division of State Police. 7 Panel Comments 1 Our office, as you may know, has the 2 responsibility for administering and implementing the 3 Radiological Emergency Response Plan for incidents at 4 nuclear power plants in New Jersey. 5 In addition to the preparation of 6 radiological emergency plans, the New Jersey State 7 Police is the lead agency in the following functional 8 areas: Notification and communication, command and 9 coordination, protective actions, which include 10 evacuation, shelter in place, access control, food, 11 water, and milk control. Parallel actions also include 12 traffic control, decontamination, exposure control, 13 mass care, law enforcement, fire control, public 14 health, and reentry and recovery. 15 For the record, I would like to introduce, to 16 my right, Mr. Jon Christiansen. He is Executive 17 Assistant to the Radiological Emergency Response 18 Planning and Technical Unit. 19 I would also like to introduce Mr. Allen 20 Smith, who is a member of our unit as well, and 21 Sergeant Brian Everham from the South Regional Office 22 of the New Jersey Office of Emergency Management. 23 Thank you. 24 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Thank you, 25 Sergeant Scardino. 8 Panel Comments 1 Now I will ask Mr. DePierro to briefly 2 describe the role of the department in the plan. 3 MR. DePIERRO: Thank you, Jerry. 4 Good evening. My name is Nick DePierro, and 5 I will briefly discuss the role of the Department of 6 Environmental Protection in the Nuclear Emergency 7 Response Plan. 8 The New Jersey Radiological Emergency 9 Response Plan includes the plan, standard operating 10 procedures, and annexes. The plan identifies all 11 responsible state agencies and outlines their specific 12 roles in the event of a nuclear emergency. It is based 13 on five primary functions that outline the actions to 14 be performed in the event of a radiological emergency 15 at one of the four nuclear power plants or one of the 16 plants affecting the State of New Jersey. These 17 actions are: Notification and communication, accident 18 assessment, command coordination, protective actions, 19 and parallel actions. 20 Since agency roles and responsibilities don't 21 change often, the plan essentially does not change. 22 The standard operating procedures are specific 23 instructions and guidelines used by each agency when 24 performing their specific duties. The procedures are 25 reviewed and tested annually, and revised whenever 9 Panel Comments 1 necessary in order to enhance emergency response. The 2 Annexes, A and B, are Radiological Emergency Response 3 Plans for the Salem and Hope Creek and -- Nuclear 4 Generating Sites. Respectfully, each annex describes 5 the planning basis and concept of operation for each of 6 the municipalities within the ten-mile Emergency 7 Planning Zones around each site. 8 Under the New Jersey Radiation Accident 9 Response Act, the Department of Environmental 10 Protection has the lead role in accident assessment and 11 the control of food, water, and milk following an 12 incident. Accident assessment involves two separate 13 analyses: An engineering analysis of the event at the 14 plant as it unfolds, and then an analysis of the amount 15 of radiation to which the public may be exposed during 16 the event of a release. 17 Depending on the severity of the event, the 18 Department provides Protective Action Recommendations 19 to the Governor, who will make a final decision on 20 actions to be implemented to protect the public health 21 and safety. Protective Action Recommendations for the 22 public may include the administration of potassium 23 iodide, evacuation, sheltering, and access control 24 within the affected, or potentially affected, area. 25 The Act also specifies that the Department 10 Panel Comments 1 develop and implement a comprehensive monitoring 2 strategy that includes daily monitoring of the levels 3 of radioactivity in the environment. The Department 4 also provides public health, safety, and technical 5 guidance with respect to the preparation and 6 implementation of the plan. 7 The Department's final responsibility under 8 the Act is to conduct, in cooperation with the State 9 Police, public hearings annually in each of the 10 designated counties to determine the adequacy and 11 effectiveness of the Plan. 12 And now I would like to introduce the members 13 that are from the New Jersey Bureau of Nuclear 14 Engineering that are here tonight. We have Carol 15 Shepard, Ann Pfaff, Karen Tuccillo, Paul Swartz, and 16 Tom Kolesnik. 17 Thank you. 18 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Thank you, Nick. 19 Before we get to the main purpose of our 20 hearing -- for us to hear what you have to say -- I 21 would like to briefly highlight some changes that have 22 taken place in the REP program since last year. 23 Sergeant Scardino, could you briefly describe 24 the changes made by the State Police? 25 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Since our last 11 Panel Comments 1 meeting last year, the State Police has implemented the 2 Regional Operations Intelligence Center which I briefly 3 touched on last year at this meeting. 4 Since its opening in 2006, the Regional 5 Operations Intelligence Center has served as a fusion 6 center to gather intelligence and also serves as the 7 operation wing for the New Jersey Office of Emergency 8 Management. In that building we have allied agencies 9 from the New Jersey Department of Environmental 10 Protection, New Jersey Department of Transportation, 11 New Jersey Department of Military and Veterans Affairs, 12 the US Coast Guard, and other agencies that would 13 support us in any incident involving a state of 14 emergency. So it's been a plus for us. The motto they 15 use is "All Hazards, All Crimes, All the Time." 16 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Thank you, 17 Sergeant. 18 Next, DHSS has taken some very positive steps 19 in tracking and documenting emergency worker exposure 20 limits. Mr. Winegar, would you describe the proactive 21 actions of your department? 22 MR. WINEGAR: Right. 23 First, my name is Jeff Winegar. I'm 24 representing the New Jersey Department of Health and 25 Senior Services. 12 Panel Comments 1 We're best known, of course, for our work 2 with -- our, you know, work with the potassium iodide, 3 KI. Here's some here. We maintain the stockpile and 4 also distribute it, you know, to the local health 5 departments, the State Police, emergency workers and 6 such. 7 Today I just wanted to briefly mention this 8 new project that we're working on. One of our other 9 main responsibilities, of several that we have, is that 10 we've always been responsible for monitoring emergency 11 workers, their radiological dosimetry. And in the 12 past, it's always been called in, and it's all been 13 done by paper. They're supposed to call this in every 14 half hour and things like that. 15 So what we did was we came up with a new -- 16 we have a new web-based reporting system, and we call 17 it DRIS, which stands for Dosimetry Reporting 18 Information System, and, essentially, what it is is 19 that emergency workers in the field can call in 20 their -- when they call in their results, as they are 21 collected, anybody that has access to the internet can 22 go to our website, and they put in the dose that the 23 worker has reported, and the system itself will keep 24 track of all the doses of all the workers by agency and 25 by shift. And what it actually does is when they reach 13 Panel Comments 1 50 percent of a certain dose -- and in this case, the 2 first dose is 1.25 rem -- the worker's name will 3 actually turn yellow, and it sends out an e-mail 4 message to anybody that's in the system, and we will 5 get the e-mail and also the person responsible for the 6 worker. And then when they reach 75 percent of their 7 dose, it will turn red, and it sends out an e-mail 8 alert again to everybody. And the reason for this is 9 then we can be alerted that this worker is starting to 10 get close to a limit, and they can start thinking about 11 moving the worker out. This is in case of an 12 emergency, obviously. And then the system also then 13 will keep track and archive then for the future what 14 the worker -- each worker during an emergency had been 15 exposed to. 16 So we're very happy about this. This is a 17 great new tool. We think in case there is an 18 emergency, for the health and safety of emergency 19 workers. 20 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Thank you, 21 Mr. Winegar. 22 Finally, the Bureau of Nuclear Engineering 23 has made improvements. Mr. DePierro, would you 24 describe the improvements made by the Bureau of Nuclear 25 Engineering. 14 Panel Comments 1 MR. DePIERRO: Okay. The BNE continually 2 strives to make improvements that will increase the 3 efficiency and effectiveness of our program, and the 4 past year has been no exception. 5 Since July, 2007, I'll read you a list of 6 enhancements and upgrades that the Bureau has made. 7 The BNE has established a data connection 8 with PSE&G's plant computer system from the BNE's 9 offices so that engineers and dose assessment staff can 10 get live data from the plant directly to our offices. 11 This enhances our ability to do assessment in the early 12 stages of an event. 13 We've fully automated the preparation, 14 processing, and reporting of the state environmental 15 thermoluminescent dosimeter data or TLD data. 16 We've completed internal technical -- we've 17 completed an internal technical systems audit of the 18 BNE's TLD program, as well, with the Department's 19 Office of Quality and Assurance. This will enhance our 20 overall quality of our data. 21 We've expanded the environmental sampling 22 program to include additional vegetation and fish 23 samples in the environments around the nuclear power 24 plants. 25 We've upgraded the equipment located at BNE's 15 Panel Comments 1 air sampling locations so they are more resistant to 2 environmental conditions. 3 We've purchased and installed -- we've 4 purchased and installed upgraded IT equipment in all of 5 our Bureau of Nuclear Engineering's response 6 facilities. This will enable us to share data between 7 facilities more quickly and effectively. 8 We've purchased and distributed cell phones 9 to emergency responders to augment the notification and 10 coordination of emergency response staff. Pagers are 11 antiquated, and we're trying to transition from the 12 paging system to cell phones and text messaging 13 capability. 14 We've completed radiation detection equipment 15 upgrades on all CREST sites. We successfully tested 16 and trans- -- the transmission of CREST data via 17 wireless communications. 18 And, finally, we've continued to make 19 progress on the implementation of the new central 20 computer system for the acquisition of field radiation 21 data from the CREST sites. 22 Out on the table here, we've provided a 23 number of fact sheets that we encourage everyone to 24 take that will explain some of the additional 25 enhancements that the program has made. 16 Panel Comments 1 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Thank you, 2 Mr. DePierro. 3 We will now proceed with the public's 4 questions and comments. Those individuals who wish to 5 speak should complete a speaker registration card and 6 hand it to one of the staff. I will call the speaker's 7 name in the same order as I received the registration 8 cards. Please be certain to clearly print your name 9 and address on the registration card so that we may 10 contact you if we need to respond to your comments and 11 questions more fully in writing. 12 When I call your name, come forward, face the 13 panel and make yourself comfortable. Before you begin 14 your comments, please state and spell your name for the 15 reporter. Speakers will be limited to five minutes 16 each. If time still remains after everyone has had a 17 chance to speak, I will invite additional comments from 18 those individuals who have already spoken. 19 In fairness to the speaker and in order that 20 we can all make the best use of this time, I ask the 21 cooperation of the audience in refraining from calling 22 out. Comments from the audience will only delay the 23 proceedings and will disrupt our ability to hear and 24 accurately record the speaker statements. Thank you. 25 We will now proceed to call the first 17 Public's Questions 1 commenter. And the first one that I have, and pardon 2 me if I don't pronounce your last name correctly, is 3 Jane Nogaki? 4 MS. NOGAKI: Nogaki. 5 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Nogaki? 6 MS. NOGAKI: Um-hum. 7 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: I apologize. 8 MS. NOGAKI: Okay. 9 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: If you would 10 stand and spell your name. 11 MS. NOGAKI: It's Jane Nogaki, N-O-G-A-K-I. 12 And I'm representing the New Jersey Environmental 13 Federation, which is a state-wide environmental group. 14 We're very concerned about the issue of the 15 hazards of nuclear plants that they pose to New Jersey 16 because of our dense population. 17 Particularly, the Oyster Creek plant is in a 18 vicinity that has a huge and growing population, much 19 greater than when the plant was licensed 30, 40 years 20 ago. And we're concerned that evacuation, particularly 21 at Oyster Creek, is really an anomaly. You know, 22 actually moving people away from that site, in case of 23 an emergency, would be physically impossible. 24 We're glad to hear that you've increased your 25 communication capacity and your measurements of 18 Public's Questions 1 radioactive substances that are being emitted by the 2 plant -- by the two plants. 3 And I have a couple of questions about some 4 of the data that's in this report, about the 5 radiation -- the so-called background radiation. 6 But, first, I wanted to know, the information 7 that is in the plan, you know, the training that you've 8 all had, the emergency exercises that you've done, how 9 does this information actually get conveyed to the 10 public, other than these public hearings, to the 11 residents that live around these sites? In other 12 words, in the event of emergency, you know, how would 13 somebody in Lower Alloways Creek or Pennsville or, you 14 know, a neighboring area know what to do? 15 Is there -- you know, the enhanced 16 communications that you have amongst each other, your 17 remote access to be able to monitor things on-site, how 18 does that information get conveyed to the general 19 public? Is it going to be on the radio? I mean, I 20 know to you have your sirens. Is it going to be a 21 reverse 911 phone call? What is your system for 22 getting the word out in the event of an accident? 23 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: I'll ask Sergeant 24 Scardino to address your question. 25 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Yes. Very good 19 Public's Questions 1 question, Jane. I appreciate that question. 2 You asked about training and exercising, how 3 that information is conveyed to the public. We train 4 our emergency workers that have a role in the plan -- 5 it could be law enforcement, fire, EMS, Public Works 6 officials, school superintendents, a whole host of 7 folks are involved in our plan. And we conduct regular 8 training annually for those folks so they know their 9 mission and their responsibility. 10 We're tested biannually by FEMA to give us 11 reasonable assurance to the State of New Jersey that 12 our plan is adequate and effective. And at the 13 conclusion of each of those exercises, a public hearing 14 is held by FEMA, to go over preliminary results of 15 that, and then a formal report is issued shortly 16 thereafter. 17 To notify the public of an event -- and it's 18 probably the most important aspect of our plan is 19 notification of the public, so that we can implement a 20 protective action decision. Of course, our primary 21 means of communicating that message is through the 22 siren sounding. PSE&G issues a calendar annually to 23 notify the folks of their -- what actions they should 24 take if they hear that siren, and they're instructed to 25 turn to an EAS broadcast station on their radio. And 20 Public's Questions 1 that information would then be conveyed via the 2 Emergency Alert System, similar to what you hear when a 3 thunderstorm warning or tornado warning is coming 4 through the area, you'll hear the noise on your radio 5 or television followed by that message, that very 6 important message. And then the public would know what 7 action to take. 8 We do have reverse 911 capability to alert 9 the public as well. Salem County Office of Emergency 10 Services has reverse 911, as well as the State of New 11 Jersey, and we can implement that from the Regional 12 Operations Intelligence Center. 13 MS. NOGAKI: How about in Ocean County, 14 around Oyster Creek, do they have reverse 911 there? 15 Because you mentioned Salem County. 16 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: I believe they 17 do, yes, Ocean County, as well as the State can ping 18 any county in the state, we can implement that from the 19 State Office of Emergency Management as well. 20 But our primary notification system is the 21 siren. We rely on the sirens and the public education 22 associated with the siren and the Emergency Alert 23 System. 24 MS. NOGAKI: What are the plans in case of a 25 power failure associated with an accident? You know, 21 Public's Questions 1 what's the back-up plan for communication? 2 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: It would be the same. 3 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: It would be the 4 same. 5 PSE&G installed a siren system with back-up 6 power supply, so we're very fortunate in this region to 7 have that capability if the power grid goes down. 8 The backup to that is what we call back-up 9 route alerting, where police and fire will go over and 10 broadcast, via their public address systems, the 11 emergency alert message. 12 MS. NOGAKI: Okay. 13 Okay. And other questions I had were 14 relative to the report on the radiation coming from the 15 plant. And it's relative to -- let me find the page. 16 -- it was an EPA report of what the average 17 Strontium-90 is in milk -- cow's milk over the past -- 18 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Page 36. 19 MS. NOGAKI: Page 36? Right. I got it. 20 And my question is -- so we see that the risk 21 of 1 in 10,000, you know, it would be up at that 780 22 picocurie per liter measure. What about -- what would 23 that limit be if we were doing a one in a million 24 risk -- which is the cancer risk that is the law in New 25 Jersey -- what would that limit be? 22 Public's Questions 1 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Let me refer you 2 to Karen Tuccillo, who is the supervisor of the 3 environmental section of the -- 4 MS. TUCCILLO: We'll talk to you about that 5 chart after the meeting. I'll stick around to go over 6 that with you. 7 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Okay. 8 MS. NOGAKI: But you can't tell me right now 9 what the -- 10 MS. TUCCILLO: I will have to look at the 11 data on that, so I will do that after the meeting. 12 MS. NOGAKI: Okay. 13 And the other question I had about that is 14 you know, I was looking to see if there is any seasonal 15 variation in -- or regional variation in the sampling, 16 and I was wondering if you've noticed any trends, like 17 are the -- the results -- 18 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Let me interrupt 19 you for one second. 20 MS. NOGAKI: Okay. 21 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: The purpose of 22 our hearing is to address the enviro- -- I'm sorry -- 23 the Emergency Response Plan. 24 MS. NOGAKI: Um-hum. 25 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: And you've -- I 23 Public's Questions 1 think your questions are more towards the environmental 2 section of day-to-day activities. 3 MS. NOGAKI: Um-hum. 4 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: And I think that 5 would be best handled with Karen off -- 6 MS. NOGAKI: Okay. Well then, I guess maybe 7 just my overall question would be, you know, is the 8 plant more at risk -- you know, your job is to figure 9 out -- to do risk assessments, what are the 10 vulnerabilities of the plants. When the plant is in 11 high operation, which I assume would be during the 12 summer months, you know, during peak load times, you 13 know, is there -- are there variations in the level of 14 radiation? In other words, you know, if an alarm is 15 going to go off at a plant, is it more likely to happen 16 in the peak demand times? And are those also a time 17 when you see variations in these emission rates? 18 MS. TUCCILLO: Well, what we track are normal 19 fluctuations in the environmental data. So I'll 20 discuss that with you after the meeting. 21 MS. NOGAKI: Okay. So my recommendation 22 would be, in analyzing this data -- which, you know, 23 from a layman's standpoint, I look at all these 24 numbers, it's kind of hard for me to tell what's going 25 on. Are there any patterns here that would be relevant 24 Public's Questions 1 to the emergency planning that you do, you know, based 2 on peak loads? I know that PSE&G is geared up, they're 3 actually putting out more power now. Does this put 4 more stress on the plant? You know, does it put it 5 more at risk for an accident? And, you know, and is it 6 more likely that something like that would happen in 7 the summertime? And, you know, at what point -- at 8 what level, you know, would your alarm go off and you 9 start calling these folks and saying, you know, we need 10 to do something here? That's my question. 11 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: As far as the 12 emergency plan, I can -- I think I can say that the 13 emergency plan is going to look at the plant, at 14 whatever conditions an emergency would occur at, and 15 the plan is looked at, reviewed, and also looked at 16 what power level, where the plant is operating at, and 17 it covers those situations. So their increase in power 18 really doesn't affect our ability to get people out of 19 the area, if there was a problem, or our ability to get 20 people in to make an assessment of what's going on. 21 MS. NOGAKI: You really don't think that 22 seasonal variations would matter? For instance, summer 23 shore traffic isn't going to have an impact on the 24 ability to get people out? 25 MR. DePIERRO: Whatever conditions the plant 25 Public's Questions 1 is running at, whether it's seasonal, you know, demand, 2 they still have to run within the guidelines and 3 restrictions of release rates, operational releases, so 4 the plant, even in the peak of summer, has got to stay 5 within the safe limits. It's restricted. So, you 6 know, what you're saying is because they are producing 7 maybe a little more electricity or is there more of a 8 demand, it has no impact on the safety of the plant -- 9 should not have any safety -- impact on the safety of 10 the plant. 11 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: Again, this is -- in two 12 weeks, there will be a hearing for Oyster Creek. We're 13 trying to confine the comments to the Salem Hope Creek 14 plant. There really is not a summer traffic problem in 15 Salem and Cumberland County. And, as Mr. DePierro 16 said -- 17 MS. NOGAKI: Well, I know right, you know, 18 around Salem City, that may be the case, but you hit 19 295 and the Turnpike at the Delaware Memorial Bridge -- 20 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: They are not really in the 21 area that's affected. The area that the plant 22 addresses is the ten-mile radius that surrounds the 23 plant. That's where the plans are written, that's 24 where we do our training, and within the confines of 25 that ten-mile radius, there really is not a summer 26 Public's Questions 1 traffic problem. 2 And, in support of Mr. DePierro, the plants 3 run pretty much at capacity, unless they're down for 4 maintenance, all the time. They're always at -- 5 generating their peak capacity. 6 MS. NOGAKI: Except when they're offline. 7 All right. Thank you. 8 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: And a postscript to the 9 public information, the State of New Jersey will be 10 publishing its own public information brochure for 11 distribution to the public that provides a synopsis of 12 what the public should do during an emergency. 13 Actually, it's in all hazards. And it addresses winter 14 storms, hurricanes, other human-caused 15 technological-type events, and that will be 16 available -- well, it's at the state printer now, but 17 we've sort of been trumped by the budget. So when the 18 budget gets put in, then other brochure will. 19 MS. NOGAKI: And so how is that going to be 20 made available? Is that going to be -- 21 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: That will be made 22 available through the Offices of Emergency Management. 23 MS. NOGAKI: So is it going to be distributed 24 or -- 25 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: Well, they'll distribute 27 Public's Questions 1 it, as best they think -- eight municipalities that 2 surround the nuclear plant. 3 MS. NOGAKI: Okay. All right. Thank you. 4 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Thank you. 5 The next speaker that I have is Roy Jones. 6 MR. JONES: Good evening. Roy Jones, R-O-Y, 7 J-O-N-E-S. I'm the co-chair of the South Jersey 8 Environmental Justice Alliance. And just a couple 9 things. 10 One thing I'm concerned about -- I guess the 11 question is this: I know you have a plan about how you 12 would evacuate people. But is there any possibility 13 that there would be a real mock drill to test the plan 14 out? In other words, on paper, there is a plan. It's 15 pretty defined. But at some point, it ought to be 16 tested for real. And has that ever been done? 17 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Thank you for 18 your question, Mr. Jones. 19 The plan is tested annually. And it's 20 evaluated by FEMA every two years. 21 MR. JONES: Okay. 22 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: So it is tested. 23 It's not tested, as you would say, you know, with mock 24 evacuees and so forth, but we do test the Reception 25 Center, we have mock evacuees that go through and get 28 Public's Questions 1 monitored for contamination, their vehicles are driven 2 through, and our first responders are trained and they 3 are tested on how they are going to decontaminate a 4 vehicle or a person, and so forth. So the plan is 5 tested on an annual basis. 6 MR. JONES: Okay. So I guess one of my 7 recommendations, and in hearing your remark, is that I 8 think we ought to consider doing a real mock drill -- 9 you know, like in high school, you have a fire drill 10 and everybody goes outside -- and test to see how long 11 it takes to get out there, and see if, in fact, the 12 plan works. So this is something, you know, I'm going 13 to suggest to all of you. And I know the State Police 14 has a very important role, which they shouldn't have to 15 have at all in this case. But my recommendation is we 16 do need a mock drill to test out, to see if, in fact, 17 the plan on paper will work in reality. That's my 18 point. 19 The second thing I want to talk about it the 20 exposure. I think, looking at the report on exposures, 21 it appears that there are radiation exposures, am I 22 correct, that happen just about every day? 23 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: In -- 24 MR. JONES: From the plant. 25 MR. DePIERRO: I don't think so. 29 Public's Questions 1 MR. JONES: No? 2 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: There is going to 3 be discharges within the -- not necessarily every day, 4 but within the confines of what the NRC will allow, 5 but -- and, again, this would be a subject, I think, we 6 should discuss -- 7 MR. JONES: That's okay. 8 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: -- with Karen 9 because, like I said, our purpose here is to talk about 10 the emergency plan and the response plan. 11 MR. JONES: And the only reason I brought 12 that up, there is a particular concern from our 13 organization in terms of what -- the ability of 14 children to deal with all of this cumulative exposures, 15 not only from this plant but the Dupont facility, all 16 this stuff, combined. So we need to start looking at 17 testing kids, and we'll bring that up later. 18 The other thing is, this -- the evacuation 19 plan I was trying to read pretty quickly, and it 20 appears that people who are transit dependent, don't 21 have vehicles, et cetera, are they going -- they would 22 have to basically -- the buses are going to pick them 23 up; am I correct? 24 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: That's correct. 25 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: Yes. 30 Public's Questions 1 MR. JONES: And, here again, that needs to be 2 tested out. 3 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: We do test that, 4 sir. 5 MR. JONES: Oh, you do? 6 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Yes, we do. 7 That's part of the required criteria for our evacuation 8 plans, to test the bus routes. We have several bus 9 routes. I'll let Jon expand on how much bus routes we 10 have and so forth. 11 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: Going back just to look at 12 the exercise program, the State Law requires that we 13 exercise the plan fully every year. That includes 14 conducting an exercise with all of the emergency 15 operations centers, the licensee, public information in 16 an exercise annually. 17 Also, we conduct what are known as 18 out-of-sequence demonstrations of the different 19 components of the evacuation plan, whether it would be 20 conducting a bus route -- and there are what? Ten -- 21 well, ten bus routes, a couple of them are split, in 22 the Salem Hope Creek area. The routes were designed to 23 be within a quarter -- approximately a quarter to a 24 half mile of the residences so the persons could walk 25 to a bus route. If a person is physically challenged 31 Public's Questions 1 and cannot cover that distance, there is an opportunity 2 for that person to send a postcard to Salem or 3 Cumberland County to arrange for transportation, to 4 allow them an opportunity to be evacuated. 5 The bus routes, when they are evaluated, are 6 selected by either FEMA or the State, the providers are 7 not aware of the bus routes, so that -- it's not that 8 we're trying to catch people, but we want to make sure 9 that they can -- that they have adequate procedures to 10 cover any route that we should desire to examine. 11 The number of buses was determined off of the 12 census by looking at the number of households without 13 access to automobiles and, also, the number of 14 households with access to a single automobile, using 15 the premise that at any one time, either the principal 16 wage earner or someone in that household might have 17 that vehicle out of the reach of the rest of the 18 residents of that household. So that we tried to be 19 siding on conservatism when it came to estimating how 20 many buses would be required. 21 We also test traffic control posts that would 22 allow the Police and the State Police to channel the 23 traffic through to the reception centers that Sergeant 24 Scardino mentioned, without being obstructed. 25 We have access control posts to deny entry 32 Public's Questions 1 into the area once it has been evacuated. 2 And in regards to the question that you asked 3 before about testing the actual evacuation plan, while 4 that's not something that we do, and I don't know that 5 the liability -- we could ever get over the liability 6 questions that would be arisen from the Attorney 7 General's Office -- every week, somewhere in the United 8 States, there is an evacuation of at least a thousand 9 persons. This was documented in a study conducted by 10 Sandia National laboratories. And a number of those 11 occasions, the evacuations have used the Radiological 12 Emergency Response Plan to evacuate residents from a -- 13 an area because of a technological hazard or some other 14 event. Irrespective of what plan they use, evacuations 15 do occur. They have occurred in New Jersey. Many 16 times, they occur. And the planning has to be somewhat 17 ad hoc. 18 But, you know, we do have a considerable bank 19 of experience in the State Police on conducting 20 evacuations. We've never had to do one in the ten-mile 21 EPZs around the nuclear plant, which we're happy that 22 that has not happened, and we hope that that continues 23 to be the trend, of course. But we have evacuated 24 shore area communities, and this is not something that 25 we are unfamiliar with. 33 Public's Questions 1 MR. JONES: And I'm not questioning the 2 profession of the State Police. 3 My point is, though -- and I'm going to try 4 to bring it home -- during the disaster in New Orleans, 5 you know, there were all these evacuation plans on 6 paper. The state government had an evacuation plan. 7 The federal government was supposed to do their thing. 8 It was pretty much professionally laid out. And you 9 know what happened. It crashed and burned. 10 So, in reality -- there is a reality to 11 something that may happen, and then there is the theory 12 and what's on paper, in terms of how you pull it off. 13 So it looks to me that the State Police, as 14 the first responders, are very clear about what they 15 should do. The only way you're going to ever find out 16 whether the community is going to respond as 17 professionally and as responsibly as you, it has to be 18 tested. It has to absolutely be tested. And 19 whether there is liability issues with it or not, it 20 could occur once a year. But just -- it could be even 21 a model testing, it could be 500 people or a thousand 22 people, just to see what would happen in this 23 circumstance, how people would respond who don't have 24 cars, how are they going to respond to the 25 communication that goes out, just to test it in phases 34 Public's Questions 1 to see if it works. I think, in reality, you want to 2 test this out and see how people respond because in 3 Katrina, it was another disaster. It was a disaster 4 happened, and the people's response and the 5 government's response to it was even worse. So how do 6 you ever deal with this? 7 You know, every time you go to school, you 8 get a test. Imagine going through school and you never 9 get graded or tested. So how do we know if you are 10 learning the information that we're putting out as 11 government officials? So that's pretty much my 12 summary. 13 We need to at some point test it out, whether 14 it's on a small scale, just to see if the community got 15 it as well as you have it, and that's the key to this. 16 Thank you. 17 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: The next speaker 18 I have is Harvey Tice. 19 MR. TICE: Harvey, H-A-R-V-E-Y, last name 20 Tice, T-I-C-E. 21 What I wanted to question tonight was -- 22 (Interruption.) 23 MR. TICE: That's not a cell phone, either. 24 (Laughter.) 25 MR. TICE: What I wanted to talk about 35 Public's Questions 1 tonight was the infrastructure of the highways going 2 and coming from the nuclear plant. Now, from this 3 area, which is the most populated area, this area of 4 the nuclear plant, there is three major roads that go 5 in. One is the Salem-Hancocks Bridge Road. The other 6 one is going in through Quinton and across Beasley's 7 Neck and on over to Hancocks Bridge. And the third one 8 is Route 623, which runs from the Cohansey River in 9 Greenwich directly into Salem. And at one time that 10 was included in the emergency route. 11 Well, Route 623, the bridge over the Alloway 12 Creek, has been closed since October, '03, from lack of 13 maintenance. It is not usable. So that road is out of 14 the picture altogether. 15 Just less than three weeks ago, we had a 16 prolonged northeast wind and a full-moon tide, and 17 there wasn't one road in the Hancocks Bridge that was 18 passable. The road was underwater at the bridge at 19 Hancocks Bridge. The -- at Coopers Run, the next one 20 below Alloway Creek on Route 623, that was flooded on 21 this side of the bridge. You couldn't get across. And 22 going into Quinton, on Sickler Street, there is a 23 meadow that goes across there, and that was underwater. 24 No way could you get in and out with a car. You could 25 do it with a high-wheeled vehicle. 36 Public's Questions 1 Now, the County says they don't have the 2 money to fix Route 623 Bridge over the Alloway Creek, 3 and it's been sitting there since '03. Nobody can use 4 it. 5 Now, all three of these roads are part of 6 your system. And at this point, just three weeks ago, 7 and it wasn't a storm, just prolonged northeast winds 8 and a full-moon tide, all three roads was underwater. 9 Now, is there something you people can do to get this 10 infrastructure built up? 11 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Well, I can't 12 speak for the Department of Transportation, nor the 13 County Highway Authority. 14 Certainly, we, in the New Jersey Office of 15 Emergency Management would like to see adequate 16 roadways and infrastructure all over the State -- the 17 coastal areas, as well as around nuclear power plants 18 and other technological hazards in the State. 19 We do have provisions for folks that may get 20 stranded. We have National Guard trucks that we can 21 bring in and other assets that we can bring in to 22 evacuate people in a situation where they're isolated. 23 MR. TICE: Well, we're not talking about just 24 a few people now. We're talking anything the other 25 side of the Alloway Creek. That's Hancocks Bridge, 37 Public's Questions 1 Harmersville, Canton, it's all included. It's a big 2 area. 3 I can sympathize with the County. They don't 4 have the money to put that bridge back in. But there 5 should be some way for them to get money to do that, 6 under your plan, so that all the roads are up to date 7 and usable. 8 And this doesn't just happen once in awhile. 9 It takes a prolonged northeast wind on a new moon or a 10 full moon, and at least one of those roads would be 11 flooded, but three weeks ago, all three of them was. 12 My grandson couldn't even go to school that morning. 13 He had to call in. Fortunately, it was one of those 14 hot days and they cut school off half day, anyhow, so 15 he didn't lose credit for it. 16 But that's the situation we're up against in 17 that part of the country. When you go down there, it 18 gets lower. And you know when you go from -- if you 19 are familiar with Salem Road into -- on a regular high 20 tide, you'd look down and see the water right up 21 against the road there at Hancocks Bridge. Now, I just 22 think on a northeast or a full-moon tide, and a 23 prolonged northeast wind, it's underwater. 24 And I just would hope that yous people could 25 pass it along somewhere that maybe something ought to 38 Public's Questions 1 be done about it. 2 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: We can certainly 3 express your concerns for the infrastructure along, 4 through our chain of command, and we would certainly 5 like to see road improvements. 6 MR. TICE: And that bridge ought to be put 7 back in. I mean, it's been there since the 8 Revolutionary days, and now they can't even afford to 9 keep it up. 10 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Is that the New 11 Bridge Road? 12 MR. TICE: That's New Bridge, yes. That's 13 New Bridge, on New Bridge road. Thank you. 14 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: Sir, we don't use that as 15 an evacuation route. 16 MR. TICE: In the early days, it was part of 17 it. Then when the bridge got to being closed so often, 18 they took it off. 19 MR. CHRISTIANSEN: Right. We took it off as 20 being evacuation route a long time ago -- 21 MR. TICE: But if one of the other bridges is 22 out of business, that sure would be a big help, if it 23 was brought up to date. 24 SGT. FIRST CLASS SCARDINO: Thank you. 25 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: Is there anyone 39 Public's Questions 1 else that would like to make a comment or ask 2 questions? 3 (No response.) 4 HEARING OFFICER HUMPHREYS: If not, then I 5 will close the hearing. Thank you. 6 (The proceedings concluded at 7:46 p.m.) 7 8 - - - - - 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 2 3 I, Carol A. Farrell, CRR, RMR, C.C.R. License 4 Number XI01173, a Certified Court Reporter in and for 5 the State of New Jersey, do hereby certify the 6 foregoing to be prepared in full compliance with the 7 current Transcript Format for Judicial Proceedings and 8 is a true and accurate transcript, to the best of my 9 knowledge and ability. 10 11 ____________________________ _________________ 12 Carol A. Farrell, CRR, RMR, CCR Date 13 Certified Court Reporter 14 License No. XIO1173 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25