Chris

Speaker: Why don’t we start with you basically giving me your name, your age, marital status, how long you’ve been married, and what do you do?

Chris: All right. My name is Chris McKibben. I’m 37 years old. I’ve been married to my wife, Rachel, going on 11 years. We have a son, Trevor, who is 7. Our daughter is 4 years old. Her name is Paige. And I actually work at a, a local university. I’m an assistant athletic director.

Speaker: OK. All right. I’m gonna just get right into the questions because we’re running out of tape. Maybe we can squeeze them in. If not, we’ll just switch them out.

Chris: All right.

Speaker: Am I …?

Chris: Fred’s enjoying his Pepsi, so …

Speaker: All right. All right. What, if anything, did you know about PPD before your wife’s experience?

Chris: I had heard of it before, really didn’t give it much thought to be honest with you. My wife has always been kind of a Dr. Spock Jr. when it comes to medical analysis and things of that nature so I had heard it before through nurses, you know, just literature in the hospital, but never really gave it much thought.

Speaker: Since you both experienced a perfect experience basically with your first child, what was it like for you, second time around, with Paige seeing your wife kind of be so different?

Chris: Yeah

Speaker: … Her behavior being so different even while she was still pregnant and leading up to the delivery.

Chris: You know, I, Trevor’s pregnancy was, you’re right, from beginning to end, was the storybook-type pregnancy. The second time, it was actually, it was, it was great up until probably the fall. You know, through the summer, up to the fall, probably about two months before Paige was born. I probably didn’t give it much thought, again, to be honest with you. I mean, it was in the moment, really probably didn’t give Rachel as much attention as I had the first time because we did have Trevor who was just, 3 years old at the time, 2, 3 years old. And I didn’t really notice the mental changes immediately but I did notice the physical changes where, you know, Paige was 10 pounds so my wife was very uncomfortable. You know, she got very, very big with Paige and then she had the shingles and the, and the Bell’s palsy. I saw the physical attributes and I kind of maybe with her mood changes, kind of put it, blamed the physical. I didn’t really realize that there was a real mental issue until, until after Paige was born.

And then afterwards, I did notice in the hospital that she was not resistant, or not interested in Paige. I just felt she was maybe just tired. Again, I unfortunately it’s my personality to kind of just, I don’t know if get in the zone is the right word, but I wasn’t really aware of that. I was just kind of just taking the moment for what it was and focusing on Trevor, focusing on Paige, making sure Rachel had what she needed, but I wasn’t really locked into the side effects of, of, of this pregnancy.

I mean, it really didn’t hit me until, until we got home, and, you know, Paige was, she had the colic, you know, it was adjusting to life with two children. We had just moved into a new place. I had a job where I was a home office. So it was, it was very, very chaotic, I guess you could say, organized chaos, as a young family usually is. But it, it really kind of just hit me in the face when Rachel was, we actually took her to the hospital and when the doctor said you need to go to a, you know, psych-, psych- … like a mental hospital. That’s the way I felt it. And I was told to go home and pack her bag and I literally was standing in the middle of the road as an ambulance wheeled her away to wherever she was going. I didn’t even know where she was going. And that’s when it, that’s when it really hit me. I had to find care for my children and my life was totally changed for the next, the next couple of months to be honest with you.

Speaker: Now again, this is all unexpected, of course, because the first experience with Trevor was total opposite. So just like what was your, what were you thinking emotionally? What were you going through as iIt just seems like things were kind of snowballing?

Chris: Yeah, well you know what, yeah, they definitely did snowball. It’s so funny. I guess, our lifestyles when we grew up as well were very, very different. I was used to a lot of chaos and things of that nature. So, not that I was numb to it, but I just handled things differently. I kind of accepted things for what they were and kind of dealt with things as they came to me. But, it was, when Rachel had to go away, that’s where I had to become a big boy if you will and really kind of make some major decisions. And for the first time the focus wasn’t about me, it was about, it was about my, my children and I had to really put my attention on, on Trevor and Paige. And, you know, it was really quite difficult. I’m not really good at asking for help either and I kind of, I did feel by myself quite a bit. Some people, one thing that really happened was, is it seems like the husband and the dad get kind of shoved aside for the most part. There really was no, hey, how’s Chris doing? I mean, of course, the focus should have been on my wife but I was, I was lost. I didn’t know what to do. It was really survival mode to be honest with you.

Speaker: I think that’s really important that you mentioned that. So as you said, you did notice symptoms in her even at the hospital?

Chris: Yeah. I mean, I had the opportunity to go down and visit her at the second hospital. That was really, really surreal to be honest with you. Rachel had mentioned that there were no other postpartum patients there. I mean, these were severe mental illness patients. It was, it was like a movie to be honest with you. I mean, Rachel wasn’t even allowed to wear her shoelaces, you know. There was a man shaving his son’s face because he was unable to do it. It was a horror movie to be honest with you. And to see my own wife there, someone I’ve known almost my whole life, in this position, it was really quite bizarre. And I, it’s really kind of indescribable. I mean, I mean, it’s really not something that many people can relate to, to be honest with you.

Speaker: I know you touched on it but if you could talk more about, you know, what you were doing for the kids on a day-to-day basis just to get through the day. I know Trevor was school-age, so …

Chris: Yeah. I think Trevor was still in nursery school at the time. So I pretty much put my, my job on hold for the most part and it was just focusing on, on the children’s needs, specifically during that timeframe where Rachel wasn’t in the house. And I was, I was Mr. Mom for the most part but it was just kind of, I didn’t really know what to do, I mean there’s an instinct, but I kind of just try to remember what Rachel did to take care of the kids and that sort of thing.

You know, Rachel’s sister lived locally so she would come over once in a while to, to help out but I mean there really, there really wasn’t much assistance because no one could relate to what we were going through.

And, you know, I almost feel, and I think I’m guilty too, I had this feeling that, Oh Rach, this isn’t that big of a deal, you need to get over it, it’s just hormones or whatever the case may be. And I don’t think anybody truly took it seriously until Rachel wasn’t there.

So I, you know, I don’t think and I don’t know if Trevor really understood what was going on, obviously he probably didn’t, but he goes from being the, the king of the castle to kind of just in his own mini-survival mode as well. So it was difficult because Paige had such a, such a bad stomach issue and she would cry for four hours at a clip and we did have the doula but, I have to be honest, I wasn’t very, much of a fan of the doula. I kind of butted heads with the doula. She had a whole different holistic approach and this and that, and I really, I wasn’t really interested in her services to be honest with you. And this whole time my wife is literally sitting in the, in the bed, just kind of staring through all of us, not even aware of what’s going on. I mean, it’s …

You know, when we prepared for this, I really didn’t realize how far back I’ve pushed it. I haven’t thought about this for the longest time because I just, I don’t, there’s a lot of me that doesn’t want to remember exactly what’s happened, so …

Speaker: That’s very understandable.

Chris: Yeah.

Speaker: It’s, like you said, it’s really, you can’t put into words, just how, you know, it’s, it’s a very horrible thing to live through so I do appreciate you bearing with me.

Chris: Yeah, sure.

Speaker: And again, because I said, I think hearing it come from, from you, someone else, you know, another father, you know, could really relate, I’m sure.

Chris: Yeah.

Speaker: I’m wondering, now we, let’s talk about maybe when you started to see your wife, that light back in her eyes again.

Chris: Yeah. It really was, it really did take a long time. I don’t know if there was an exact timeframe but I think when she really felt better was when we moved out of our townhouse and moved into our house now. It was a chance for her to paint the walls and kind of have a home feel where she could feel comfortable and we can feel comfortable as a family and, you know, Trevor can go out in the backyard and play. You know, she, there was a lot of, you know, counseling visits, a lot of medication and such. You know, she found a church that she was, got very involved in which made a huge difference in her life. I mean, she now is employed at that church and is very involved. That was a major, major difference.

You know, like I said, there really wasn’t an exact timeframe but, you know, I, it’s really kind of hard to articulate when it happened but she really made a concerted effort to fix herself, which I did notice. She did kind of just say, forget it, I’m just gonna give in and take the help that, that is provided. There was a major resistance to that at one point so I think it really started to change for the positive when she accepted the situation, talked to the proper people and went through the necessary steps to, to repair herself.

Speaker: When she kind of was in the throes of it, I was just wondering, did you ever, did the thought ever cross your mind that she might never be the same again?

Chris: Yeah, I’m sure at that point, I did. I didn’t think, I didn’t see any light at the end of the tunnel, that’s for, that’s for sure. I mean, it was a, it was a scary, scary period. And anybody that’s had small children would know that there is no off day. And, you know, at one point, it felt like I was taking care of three people and essentially I really was. You know, Rachel, unfortunately, was helpless. There was really not much she could do. She wasn’t taking care of herself. She never got out of bed for the most part. I mean, everything from A to Z was my responsibility, which was a new change for me. I mean, we were always a pretty good tandem, a good team, and I didn’t realize how much I personally depended on her for a lot of things. So I had to take care of a lot of things that I never even gave a second thought, to be honest with you.

You know, but I, when it came to our children, I know I have always been one to, to step up. I mean, we, you know, when it came to, you know, 3:30 in the morning feedings, things like that, we had a great, you know, a great team effort. You know, I had my responsibilities, she did hers. But all of a sudden, it was, it was all me. And it was, it was very difficult for me to accept and I had a little resentment, I think, towards, it was probably partially towards Rachel but towards the whole situation. And I don’t know if it was a martyr mode or what have you, but I felt very alone and like no one really gave a care what was going through my mind, to be honest with you.

I was totally left out in the dark. I didn’t have a support group. You know, Rachel’s relatives and friends really rallied around her and, and there I was kind of holding the bag, if you will. And it was, it made me feel, it definitely made me feel resentment.

Speaker: Two questions that kind of popped into my head. One, I just want to talk about, well I want you to tell me, was there a feeling of relief when she did start to come around? And then, my other question was, if there was a support group for you, do you think you would have gone?

Chris: First off, yeah, there was a relief when she started coming around. There would be relapses too, which would frustrate me, because I’d think we were making progress and then we’d regress a little bit. But yeah, to have her back, to, you know, to, to be there, not necessarily for me, but just to be an active participant again and to, you know, first and foremost to help herself and to, to be a mother to our kids was very important. You know, we did cause quite a few strains on our relationship and it took a while to repair those, that’s for sure. There was, I hate to use the word damage, but there was probably a little bit of that so we had a, a long way to go to, to really be where we are today.

Support group-wise, I probably would have to be honest with you. I had the unique experience of being home with Trevor as a stay-at-home dad for his first year and a half and so I did have some of the maternal instincts if you will because I had had to learn with Trevor. I mean, he and I were attached at the hip for his first year and a half and I would never trade that experience ever. But it was funny, there is a, seems to be a stigma with fathers or husbands that do the motherly responsibilities. You know, I learned that a lot with, with Trevor. I mean, we’d go to the playground and there’d be all the moms and there’d be the weird dad there, it seemed. It really did. It was just, it was just, you know, it was just, felt, it was really uncomfortable. I’d go through the parenting magazines and everything is addressed to mommy and mother, and there’s nothing, nothing at all about a father. There’s not even a father pictured, to be honest with you. I mean, I don’t know if it’s just socially accepted now that, you know, the father isn’t existent or what have you but there was nothing in any kind of a periodical to help a father. You know, I didn’t know what to do. I mean, it was really, it was really just instinct to, to basically take care of my family. I had no one to talk to about that.

Speaker: Since sharing how PPD affected your family, through your wife sharing and opening up about it, have any other husbands or men at all approached you and shared anything that they might be going through or asked you any questions?

Chris: This is literally the first time I’ve talked about it in five years, to be honest with you. I mean, it doesn’t even seem like it happened. I know it happened. I know it was one of the worst times of our life, but it doesn’t seem real. Literally, it doesn’t. I just, you know, when I talked to Rachel for this, I have forgotten so much. And she’s like, you don’t remember the panic attacks? You don’t remember me doing this? No, I don’t. It was just, it was literally just a survival. And I do remember how miserable my daughter was and how awful she felt, and I remember a lot of that stuff. But the whole, you know, I guess it was almost a year, dealing with this, it doesn’t, it seems like a dream. I mean, I know we did it, I know, I know I visited my wife in a mental institution. I mean, how many people do that? But again, I just have no, it just doesn’t seem real. This normalcy that we have today is what I try to, try to focus on.

Speaker: Do you want to talk a little bit about what life is like at home now and, you know, kind of the role that you’ve played since Rachel’s experience?

Chris: Yeah, I mean, it’s five years later now and I’d say we’re pretty much the normal family. Sure we have our disagreements. We argue. You know, our children hate each other and love each other at the same time. But we’re, I think, I think we’re more a normal family than most people to be honest with you.

We know we’re not perfect. We know we’re not the best at everything. There’s no such thing as the perfect parent or the perfect wife or husband. We have our battles and we just deal with it. We work it out and we try to hash it out the best we can and we know we’re not perfect people and we have our, our downfalls, but we do our best to teach our children, you know, what’s wrong and right and, you know, you know, they can learn from their parents even if it’s learning from a negative experience. Not everything is rainbows and sunshine, but , you know what? When we do have rainbows and sunshine, it’s that much nicer, that’s for sure.

Speaker: OK, last question. What would you, what would your advice be to other husbands whose wives are going through PPD?

Chris: Well, there’s a good chance they’re not exaggerating their feelings. That was one of, you know, my wife, she’s a very colorful person and has a different way of living life and she’s, you know, Rachel is Rachel, so sometimes that’s used against her. She was really calling out for help and I didn’t recognize it at all so take it seriously. You know, there are triggers and real signs of PPD that I’m very aware of now but was not at that time. And really just, just be there for her and for your family. You know, it’s a selfless thing, you know, it’s, but it’s really, it’s unfortunately really not about you, it’s about the family as a whole. You have to do what you have to do. And I just feel it’s a man’s job to do what he has to do for his family. But don’t, don’t be embarrassed of it either. Even if, whoever you talk to, whether it be friends or a priest or counseling. There really isn’t anything directed towards men, but by talking about it with others there might be other venues that you could get the help you need. You know, I’m the type of person that kind of tries to battle things themselves, and I don’t need help, I can do it, and it’s not that easy. This will overpower you very, very quickly.